Brasher boot problem

[Robert]

I've recently bought a new pair of Brasher Boots, which are very comfortable
& look to be well made. In general they're good for my long distance & hill
walking, except in wet or damp conditions, as they've little grip on wet
wood & slippery wet rock. I know other boots will have less grip in these
conditions, but these are the worst boots I've ever had for this kind of
thing, wet rock can be as slippery as ice. Anyone know if there's anyway to
make the soles less slippery? Are there any kind of studs or something that
can be put on them?
Robert.

[PeterC]

Post by Robert
I've recently bought a new pair of Brasher Boots, which are very comfortable
& look to be well made. In general they're good for my long distance & hill
walking, except in wet or damp conditions, as they've little grip on wet
wood & slippery wet rock. I know other boots will have less grip in these
conditions, but these are the worst boots I've ever had for this kind of
thing, wet rock can be as slippery as ice. Anyone know if there's anyway to
make the soles less slippery? Are there any kind of studs or something that
can be put on them?
Robert.

Same problem with my Scarpa- slip on a clean, wet road unless it's a
'pebble-dashed' surface. Also wear out quickly, so worst of both worlds.

If car tyres skidded easily and lasted 1,000 miles...! There must be some
way of getting grip and low wear without resorting to tricounis, triple
hobs and clinkers!

My 30yo boots also slip a bit, but the rubber will have hardened in that
time (last year I used up some part-worn, 20yo bike tyres and treated those
carefully on a wet road).

I'd be interested in some of Haglofs' hiking boots as the sole isn't
Vibram:

http://www.haglofs.se/prd/visaprod.asp?ID=1678&nid=784&lang=en&CatNr=480&CatNr2=&xCatNr=&NP=&Q=&HMtrl=&Str=&show=&ak=&nid2=891

[GSV Three Minds in a Can]

Post by PeterC

Post by Robert
I've recently bought a new pair of Brasher Boots, which are very comfortable
& look to be well made. In general they're good for my long distance & hill
walking, except in wet or damp conditions, as they've little grip on wet
wood & slippery wet rock. I know other boots will have less grip in these
conditions, but these are the worst boots I've ever had for this kind of
thing, wet rock can be as slippery as ice. Anyone know if there's anyway to
make the soles less slippery? Are there any kind of studs or something that
can be put on them?
Robert.

Same problem with my Scarpa- slip on a clean, wet road unless it's a
'pebble-dashed' surface. Also wear out quickly, so worst of both worlds.
If car tyres skidded easily and lasted 1,000 miles...! There must be some
way of getting grip and low wear without resorting to tricounis, triple
hobs and clinkers!
My 30yo boots also slip a bit, but the rubber will have hardened in that
time (last year I used up some part-worn, 20yo bike tyres and treated those
carefully on a wet road).
I'd be interested in some of Haglofs' hiking boots as the sole isn't

I don't think Brasher use Vibram either, at least when I last bought a
pair they didn't .. Vibram still has problems (wet wood, for instance)
in some incarnations, but the Brasher ones I had last were way worse
than that.

Best for me, so far, has been Hawkhead Lomer, which I think had a Vibram
sole unit, but I don't believe that is made any more. Alt-Berg
Fremington are not too bad either.

However car tyres don't grip on wet wood either .. just that you don't
drive on that surface a lot.

Brasher FMB1 and FMB2 and Karrimor Skye Event, were all 'pants' ..
dangerous even, as measured by the number of 'Oh sh&t!' moments out
walking, normally on wet grass, wooden stiles, and occasional bits of
rock - not serious scrambling terrain.

[Ben]

Post by GSV Three Minds in a Can

Post by PeterC

Post by Robert
I've recently bought a new pair of Brasher Boots, which are very comfortable
& look to be well made. In general they're good for my long distance & hill
walking, except in wet or damp conditions, as they've little grip on wet
wood & slippery wet rock. I know other boots will have less grip in these
conditions, but these are the worst boots I've ever had for this kind of
thing, wet rock can be as slippery as ice. Anyone know if there's anyway to
make the soles less slippery? Are there any kind of studs or something that
can be put on them?
Robert.

Same problem with my Scarpa- slip on a clean, wet road unless it's a
'pebble-dashed' surface. Also wear out quickly, so worst of both worlds.
If car tyres skidded easily and lasted 1,000 miles...! There must be some
way of getting grip and low wear without resorting to tricounis, triple
hobs and clinkers!
My 30yo boots also slip a bit, but the rubber will have hardened in that
time (last year I used up some part-worn, 20yo bike tyres and treated those
carefully on a wet road).
I'd be interested in some of Haglofs' hiking boots as the sole isn't

I don't think Brasher use Vibram either, at least when I last bought a
pair they didn't .. Vibram still has problems (wet wood, for instance) in
some incarnations, but the Brasher ones I had last were way worse than
that.

Depends on the boot. I have a pair of Brasher Diablo XCR lightweight boots,
and they have Vibram soles.

[GSV Three Minds in a Can]

Post by Ben

Post by GSV Three Minds in a Can

Post by PeterC
I'd be interested in some of Haglofs' hiking boots as the sole isn't

I don't think Brasher use Vibram either, at least when I last bought a
pair they didn't .. Vibram still has problems (wet wood, for instance) in
some incarnations, but the Brasher ones I had last were way worse than
that.

Depends on the boot. I have a pair of Brasher Diablo XCR lightweight boots,
and they have Vibram soles.

And the grip is ... ?

[Ben]

Post by GSV Three Minds in a Can

Post by Ben

Post by GSV Three Minds in a Can

Post by PeterC
I'd be interested in some of Haglofs' hiking boots as the sole isn't

I don't think Brasher use Vibram either, at least when I last bought a
pair they didn't .. Vibram still has problems (wet wood, for instance) in
some incarnations, but the Brasher ones I had last were way worse than
that.

Depends on the boot. I have a pair of Brasher Diablo XCR lightweight boots,
and they have Vibram soles.

And the grip is ... ?

Acceptable. Probably not as good as my (also-)Vibram soled Raichle boots,
but the Brashers are only for lightweight walking, not serious mountains.
Mind you, the Brashers worked perfectly well when I was wearing them as
general footwear through all the snow and ice back in February.

[Theo]

Post by Robert
I've recently bought a new pair of Brasher Boots, which are very
comfortable & look to be well made. In general they're good for my long
distance & hill walking, except in wet or damp conditions, as they've
little grip on wet wood & slippery wet rock. I know other boots will have
less grip in these conditions, but these are the worst boots I've ever had
for this kind of thing, wet rock can be as slippery as ice. Anyone know if
there's anyway to make the soles less slippery? Are there any kind of
studs or something that can be put on them?
Robert.

Would it be possible to glue sandlinnen (?*) to the sole of your boot ?

* I'm not sure if I'm using the right word. I don't mean sandpaper (that
would obviously fall apart when wet) but the linnen variety.

Theo
www.theosphotos.fotopic.net
www.theooutdoors.blogspot.com (only in Dutch atm)

[Gustav Fenk]

Post by Theo
Would it be possible to glue sandlinnen (?*) to the sole of your boot ?
* I'm not sure if I'm using the right word. I don't mean sandpaper (that
would obviously fall apart when wet) but the linnen variety.
Theowww.theosphotos.fotopic.netwww.theooutdoors.blogspot.com(only in Dutch atm)

Emery cloth?

[PeterC]

Post by Theo

Post by Robert
I've recently bought a new pair of Brasher Boots, which are very
comfortable & look to be well made. In general they're good for my long
distance & hill walking, except in wet or damp conditions, as they've
little grip on wet wood & slippery wet rock. I know other boots will have
less grip in these conditions, but these are the worst boots I've ever had
for this kind of thing, wet rock can be as slippery as ice. Anyone know if
there's anyway to make the soles less slippery? Are there any kind of
studs or something that can be put on them?
Robert.

Would it be possible to glue sandlinnen (?*) to the sole of your boot ?
* I'm not sure if I'm using the right word. I don't mean sandpaper (that
would obviously fall apart when wet) but the linnen variety.
Theo
www.theosphotos.fotopic.net
www.theooutdoors.blogspot.com (only in Dutch atm)

I've an old pair of Merrel trekking sandals; the soles are almost worn out,
so I intend to find a damaged but not badly worn semi-off-road car tyre,
cut the remaining cleats off of the sandals and glue some of the tyre to
them. I wouldn't use the sandals on the hills, of course, but just try them
for grip.
If a Landrover doesn't skid around and can exert high loading and torque
with reasonable longevity, I can't see why boot soles can't.

In a shop in Kendal (where I was told about Haglofs' boots, although the
shop didn't stock them), there was a mention of a certain well-known and
ubiquitous make of sole having undue influence on the market.

[Jhimmy]

<snip>

Post by PeterC
I've an old pair of Merrel trekking sandals; the soles are almost worn out,
so I intend to find a damaged but not badly worn semi-off-road car tyre,
cut the remaining cleats off of the sandals and glue some of the tyre to
them. I wouldn't use the sandals on the hills, of course, but just try them
for grip.
Peter.
The head of a pin will hold more angels if
it's been flattened with an angel-grinder.

They used to make sandals from car tyre in Vietnam.

http://www.reedaccess.com/vietyankee/prodSandals.htm

I believe they started making them in 1964....which I believe was a
"Goodyear"......{coughs then groans}....

Jhimmy

[n***@cam.ac.uk]

Post by Jhimmy
They used to make sandals from car tyre in Vietnam.

Lorry tyres, actually. I have used a pair.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

[Ted]

Post by Robert
I've recently bought a new pair of Brasher Boots, which are very comfortable
& look to be well made. In general they're good for my long distance & hill
walking, except in wet or damp conditions, as they've little grip on wet
wood & slippery wet rock. I know other boots will have less grip in these
conditions, but these are the worst boots I've ever had for this kind of
thing, wet rock can be as slippery as ice. Anyone know if there's anyway to
make the soles less slippery? Are there any kind of studs or something that
can be put on them?
Robert.

I have a sense of Deja Vu! A friend of mine has some Brashers, on wet
limestone they are lethal.

Within a couple of years the 'fabric' uppers have split, so hopefully
his next boots will be from a diferent manufacturer, my Alt-Bergs work
fine, but they did cost an awful lot more.

I wonder if you can take them back stating the Sale of Goods Act, by
saying the boots are 'not fit for purpose'? The other option would be
to have them re-soled, or only use them when it is dry.

Ted

[PeterC]

Post by Ted

Post by Robert
I've recently bought a new pair of Brasher Boots, which are very comfortable
& look to be well made. In general they're good for my long distance & hill
walking, except in wet or damp conditions, as they've little grip on wet
wood & slippery wet rock. I know other boots will have less grip in these
conditions, but these are the worst boots I've ever had for this kind of
thing, wet rock can be as slippery as ice. Anyone know if there's anyway to
make the soles less slippery? Are there any kind of studs or something that
can be put on them?
Robert.

I have a sense of Deja Vu! A friend of mine has some Brashers, on wet
limestone they are lethal.
Within a couple of years the 'fabric' uppers have split, so hopefully
his next boots will be from a diferent manufacturer, my Alt-Bergs work
fine, but they did cost an awful lot more.
I wonder if you can take them back stating the Sale of Goods Act, by
saying the boots are 'not fit for purpose'? The other option would be
to have them re-soled, or only use them when it is dry.
Ted

The hills are never dry everywhere and one wet rock...

I've a pair of shoes that have no cleats and close to zero pattern on the
soles and they can't be made toskid even on wet, greenish concrete - don't
know how long they'd last, though.

Cleats only provide mechanical interaction on the macro scale; they do
nothing for grip on plain surfaces as the rock grips the sole (as the road
grips a tyre) and if the compound is too hard it isn't deformed enough by
the surface.

[Gordon H]

Post by Robert
I've recently bought a new pair of Brasher Boots, which are very comfortable
& look to be well made. In general they're good for my long distance & hill
walking, except in wet or damp conditions, as they've little grip on wet
wood & slippery wet rock. I know other boots will have less grip in these
conditions, but these are the worst boots I've ever had for this kind of
thing, wet rock can be as slippery as ice. Anyone know if there's anyway to
make the soles less slippery? Are there any kind of studs or something that
can be put on them?
Robert.

I have also bought a pair of Hillmasters recently, but have only done
about 10 milesup to now, and in dry weather.
My walking companion has a pair, and told me she finds them slippy in
the wet, but only after I bought mine. Should I return the boots or
return her? ;-)
Any boots are slippy on wet wood, IME.

I think that modern boot soles are just not made of the same material as
they were 20 years ago, Vibram label or not.

[Peter Clinch]

Post by Gordon H
Any boots are slippy on wet wood, IME.

Indeed, or at least wet wood covered in the various things that grow on
it. Same with smooth rock (on one occasion emerging from a caving trip
when it was dark outside and the exit was a river flowing out of a large
cave we found out when we'd come out into the open because we all
started slipping all of a sudden, the difference being the lichen etc.
growing on the rocks with daylight available made them very slippy when
wet).

Post by Gordon H
I think that modern boot soles are just not made of the same material as
they were 20 years ago, Vibram label or not.

Not that surprising. But it's not a case of older == better, it's more
about there are now more options for a finished product and different
boots/shoes will be optimised for different things. To some extent you
have a choice between hard wear and general grip, but as anyone who's
tried to come down from a climb in their super-sticky soft rock boots on
wet grass will tell you, grip pattern can make a huge difference!

Pete.

[Robert]

Thanks for your help all.
I suppose I could try the sale of goods act & return them to shop stating
they're unfit for purpose. I've now had these boots for about a year, so
guarantee will be void, & shop would likely say if they're really unfit for
purpose why has it taken so long for me to find this out? I got these boots
when my old ones started to show the first signs of beginning to fall apart.
So I only wore them about once or twice to see how they were, & the problem
wasn't apparent then. I then continued to wear the old ones right through
the winter months, with intention of starting to wear the new ones in the
better weather of summer. So I started wearing them from about May, when I
did notice the slipperiness from time to time, but thought it might go away
as the soles started to wear. Most of my walkings been on long distance
paths where mostly I found no problems, though the slip was still there on
stony paths. It's only now becoming apparent that the slip is there to stay
when I've been out walking routes that went over flat rock, etc. & I found
it very tricky going. I'm intending to walk the new Ayrshire coastal path
one section at a time on weekends over the winter months, & realise these
boots are going to be crap for this, as some of the route involves
scrambling over the rocky foreshore which will be all wet & slimy with green
stuff, slippery for most boots at the best of times, but lethal with these
new ones.

[Peter Clinch]

Post by Robert
I'm intending to walk the new Ayrshire coastal path
one section at a time on weekends over the winter months, & realise these
boots are going to be crap for this, as some of the route involves
scrambling over the rocky foreshore which will be all wet & slimy with green
stuff, slippery for most boots at the best of times, but lethal with these
new ones.

Any particular reason to use boots? I much prefer shoes (and sandals
when it's warm) for my walking and they usually have softer and more
comforming soles than boots.
For path work there's not really much to gain from boots IMHO. All else
being equal, shoes are lighter, cheaper and more comfortable.

Pete.

[PeterC]

Post by Peter Clinch

Post by Robert
I'm intending to walk the new Ayrshire coastal path
one section at a time on weekends over the winter months, & realise these
boots are going to be crap for this, as some of the route involves
scrambling over the rocky foreshore which will be all wet & slimy with green
stuff, slippery for most boots at the best of times, but lethal with these
new ones.

Any particular reason to use boots? I much prefer shoes (and sandals
when it's warm) for my walking and they usually have softer and more
comforming soles than boots.
For path work there's not really much to gain from boots IMHO. All else
being equal, shoes are lighter, cheaper and more comfortable.
Pete.

My Merrell sandals are about 8yo and weren't too bad then but have hardened
off a bit. They're about worn out, but even on a wet surface that shouldn't
cause skidding - a smooth car tyre will grip well if it doesn't aquaplane.

The Merrell shoes, 2yo, are v. little better than the Scarpa boots. The 4yo
Brasher sandals (only marginally 'trekking' - transmit too much to the
feet) are about the same as the shoes.
None of them is as good as the '70s boots were.

[Peter Clinch]

Post by PeterC
My Merrell sandals are about 8yo and weren't too bad then but have hardened
off a bit. They're about worn out, but even on a wet surface that shouldn't
cause skidding - a smooth car tyre will grip well if it doesn't aquaplane.

There's relatively smooth/wet, and there's relatively smooth/wet with a
layer of lichen. First is okay, second absolutely deadly. Roads aren't
generally sufferers because of all the traffic keeping them clean.

Pete.

[PeterC]

Post by Peter Clinch

Post by PeterC
My Merrell sandals are about 8yo and weren't too bad then but have hardened
off a bit. They're about worn out, but even on a wet surface that shouldn't
cause skidding - a smooth car tyre will grip well if it doesn't aquaplane.

There's relatively smooth/wet, and there's relatively smooth/wet with a
layer of lichen. First is okay, second absolutely deadly. Roads aren't
generally sufferers because of all the traffic keeping them clean.
Pete.

That's what annoys me - most of my modern footwear is far worse than the
mid-'60s Japanese 'Teflon' tyres on my Hondas (zen and the art of
horizontal motorcycling). The sort of road where the drive wheel on the
trike wouldn't skid (if Michelin) is slippery to soles.

[Peter Clinch]

Post by PeterC
That's what annoys me - most of my modern footwear is far worse than the
mid-'60s Japanese 'Teflon' tyres on my Hondas (zen and the art of
horizontal motorcycling). The sort of road where the drive wheel on the
trike wouldn't skid (if Michelin) is slippery to soles.

Tyres are softer and consequently wear faster than boot soles. You can
make the boots grippier easily enough, but only if you don't mind them
wearing out much quicker. If you /do/ want softer but less hard wearing
soles then approach shoes usually have those sorts of options, and
sandals seem to have softer (but less hard wearing) rubber as a default
(like the "Spider rubber" on Teva Terra-Fis).

Pete.

[n***@cam.ac.uk]

Post by Peter Clinch

Post by PeterC
That's what annoys me - most of my modern footwear is far worse than the
mid-'60s Japanese 'Teflon' tyres on my Hondas (zen and the art of
horizontal motorcycling). The sort of road where the drive wheel on the
trike wouldn't skid (if Michelin) is slippery to soles.

Tyres are softer and consequently wear faster than boot soles. You can
make the boots grippier easily enough, but only if you don't mind them
wearing out much quicker. If you /do/ want softer but less hard wearing
soles then approach shoes usually have those sorts of options, and
sandals seem to have softer (but less hard wearing) rubber as a default
(like the "Spider rubber" on Teva Terra-Fis).

Only bicycle tyres. Car tyres are much harder wearing.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

[PeterC]

Post by Peter Clinch

Post by PeterC
That's what annoys me - most of my modern footwear is far worse than the
mid-'60s Japanese 'Teflon' tyres on my Hondas (zen and the art of
horizontal motorcycling). The sort of road where the drive wheel on the
trike wouldn't skid (if Michelin) is slippery to soles.

Tyres are softer and consequently wear faster than boot soles. You can
make the boots grippier easily enough, but only if you don't mind them
wearing out much quicker. If you /do/ want softer but less hard wearing
soles then approach shoes usually have those sorts of options, and
sandals seem to have softer (but less hard wearing) rubber as a default
(like the "Spider rubber" on Teva Terra-Fis).
Pete.

Found out about that: Jap tyre about 9,000 miles and skidded; Dunlop about
3,000 miles and OK.
Boots seem to be the worst of both: skid on anything and my Scarpas will
manage about 1,000 miles.
I'd be v. happy with a 'Dunlop' version that gripped well and did 3,000 -
or even the 'Michelin World Tour' with 2,000 and tread left.

[Martin Richardson]

Post by PeterC
Found out about that: Jap tyre about 9,000 miles and skidded; Dunlop about
3,000 miles and OK.
Boots seem to be the worst of both: skid on anything and my Scarpas will
manage about 1,000 miles.
I'd be v. happy with a 'Dunlop' version that gripped well and did 3,000 -
or even the 'Michelin World Tour' with 2,000 and tread left.

I find it difficult enough on roller skates. I think walking on with car
tyres would be near impossible - especially on Bristly ridge.

[PeterC]

Post by Martin Richardson

Post by PeterC
Found out about that: Jap tyre about 9,000 miles and skidded; Dunlop about
3,000 miles and OK.
Boots seem to be the worst of both: skid on anything and my Scarpas will
manage about 1,000 miles.
I'd be v. happy with a 'Dunlop' version that gripped well and did 3,000 -
or even the 'Michelin World Tour' with 2,000 and tread left.

I find it difficult enough on roller skates. I think walking on with car
tyres would be near impossible - especially on Bristly ridge.

You've done Bristly Ridge on roller skates?!

[Martin Richardson]

Post by PeterC

Post by Martin Richardson

Post by PeterC
Found out about that: Jap tyre about 9,000 miles and skidded; Dunlop about
3,000 miles and OK.
Boots seem to be the worst of both: skid on anything and my Scarpas will
manage about 1,000 miles.
I'd be v. happy with a 'Dunlop' version that gripped well and did 3,000 -
or even the 'Michelin World Tour' with 2,000 and tread left.

I find it difficult enough on roller skates. I think walking on with car
tyres would be near impossible - especially on Bristly ridge.

You've done Bristly Ridge on roller skates?!

No - but I have just about managed to skate down my garden path

[Yo$$1960]

Roads aren't generally sufferers because of all the traffic keeping them
clean.

You should see the roads around here. It's not unusual to have grass
and/or moss growing in them.

[Peter Clinch]

Post by Yo$$1960

Roads aren't generally sufferers because of all the traffic keeping them
clean.

You should see the roads around here. It's not unusual to have grass
and/or moss growing in them.

Typically that happens down the middle, quite common on single-tracks to
the end of glans.

And if you rode a m/cycle at speed down the middle in the wet, how do
you think you'd do for grip compared to the cleared tracks to either side?

Pete.

[PeterC]

Post by Peter Clinch

Post by Yo$$1960

Roads aren't generally sufferers because of all the traffic keeping them
clean.

You should see the roads around here. It's not unusual to have grass
and/or moss growing in them.

Typically that happens down the middle, quite common on single-tracks to
the end of glans.

^^^^^
We might be too young and innocent for the way that this thread is being
pulled.

[Gordon H]

Post by PeterC

Post by Peter Clinch
Typically that happens down the middle, quite common on single-tracks to
the end of glans.

^^^^^
We might be too young and innocent for the way that this thread is being
pulled.

8-)
I'm too old and innocent.

[Yo$$1960]

Post by Peter Clinch
Typically that happens down the middle, quite common on single-tracks to

True, but there are a few in my area that are so infrequently used they
have grass all the way across.

Post by Peter Clinch
And if you rode a m/cycle at speed down the middle in the wet, how do you
think you'd do for grip compared to the cleared tracks to either side?

Poorly, of course, using road tyres. Very few bikes in my area, though.
Mostly tractors and quads.

LOOTAR:

Plenty of audible warning of their impending approach when I'm walking the
lanes of home.

[Robert]

Post by Peter Clinch
Any particular reason to use boots? I much prefer shoes (and sandals
when it's warm) for my walking and they usually have softer and more
comforming soles than boots.
For path work there's not really much to gain from boots IMHO. All else
being equal, shoes are lighter, cheaper and more comfortable.

I don't suppose there's any reason why I can't wear something else when I do
this walk, it's just that I'm used to wearing my boots when out walking,
(though up till now my boots had a much better grip). As some of the route
is along concrete & tarmac of seaside town promenades, I was intending to
just use my trainers along these sections anyway, saving the boots for the
rougher paths & tracks along the way. I've still got the old Scarpa boots,
which are well on they're way to falling apart, but are still strangely
enough water tight, so I could maybe use them for the tricky wet rocky beach
sections. So hopefully I'll be able to walk this route without breaking my
neck. :o)

[Bill Grey]

Post by Peter Clinch
Not that surprising. But it's not a case of older == better, it's more
about there are now more options for a finished product and different
boots/shoes will be optimised for different things. To some extent you
have a choice between hard wear and general grip, but as anyone who's
tried to come down from a climb in their super-sticky soft rock boots on
wet grass will tell you, grip pattern can make a huge difference!

The question of good grip affect other activities besides
walking/climbing. Fishermen for example have an eternal problem when
wading on rocky stream beds. The allegedly "best" sole" is felt, but
then felt is lethal on grass, so how does an angler move from one spot
on the river to another over grass without going base over apex?

Waders with tungsten studs are the best all round answer, and it would
appear that walkers are looking of something that will cover all
eventualities - a difficult decision.

I feel That Vibram soles are too hard for wet rock but generally
excellent for other surfaces.

[Rod]

Post by Bill Grey
Waders with tungsten studs are the best all round answer, and it
would appear that walkers are looking of something that will cover
all eventualities - a difficult decision.
I feel That Vibram soles are too hard for wet rock but generally
excellent for other surfaces.
--

Poucher had the answer ;~} In the early edition of his 'Welsh Peaks'
that I have, he advocates taking Vibram and nailed boots, carrying the
pair you aren't wearing.

[Theo]

Post by Bill Grey

Post by Peter Clinch
Not that surprising. But it's not a case of older == better, it's more
about there are now more options for a finished product and different
boots/shoes will be optimised for different things. To some extent you
have a choice between hard wear and general grip, but as anyone who's
tried to come down from a climb in their super-sticky soft rock boots on
wet grass will tell you, grip pattern can make a huge difference!

The question of good grip affect other activities besides
walking/climbing. Fishermen for example have an eternal problem when
wading on rocky stream beds. The allegedly "best" sole" is felt, but then
felt is lethal on grass, so how does an angler move from one spot on the
river to another over grass without going base over apex?
Waders with tungsten studs are the best all round answer, and it would
appear that walkers are looking of something that will cover all
eventualities - a difficult decision.
I feel That Vibram soles are too hard for wet rock but generally excellent
for other surfaces.

Would it be difficult to make soles out of gabbro ?

Theo
www.theosphotos.fotopic.net
www.theooutdoors.blogspot.com (only in Dutch atm)

[Mike Clark]

Post by Peter Clinch

Post by Gordon H
Any boots are slippy on wet wood, IME.

Indeed, or at least wet wood covered in the various things that grow on
it. Same with smooth rock (on one occasion emerging from a caving trip
when it was dark outside and the exit was a river flowing out of a large
cave we found out when we'd come out into the open because we all
started slipping all of a sudden, the difference being the lichen etc.
growing on the rocks with daylight available made them very slippy when
wet).

The problem usually occurs the other way round, in that people who are
used to finding rocks in river beds very slippery, are often surprised
to find that boots grip wet rock very well in caves.

Mike

[PeterC]

Post by Gordon H

Post by Robert
I've recently bought a new pair of Brasher Boots, which are very comfortable
& look to be well made. In general they're good for my long distance & hill
walking, except in wet or damp conditions, as they've little grip on wet
wood & slippery wet rock. I know other boots will have less grip in these
conditions, but these are the worst boots I've ever had for this kind of
thing, wet rock can be as slippery as ice. Anyone know if there's anyway to
make the soles less slippery? Are there any kind of studs or something that
can be put on them?
Robert.

I have also bought a pair of Hillmasters recently, but have only done
about 10 milesup to now, and in dry weather.
My walking companion has a pair, and told me she finds them slippy in
the wet, but only after I bought mine. Should I return the boots or
return her? ;-)
Any boots are slippy on wet wood, IME.

Yes, because the wood's not hard enough to grip the sole and too hard to be
gripped (firmish mud is OK with cleats, so long as it doesn't clog them);
also wet wood is slippery if smooth, even if there are no other things on
it.

Post by Gordon H
I think that modern boot soles are just not made of the same material as
they were 20 years ago, Vibram label or not.

My new Scarpas are worse than the 30yo Vibram soles, although the old ones
aren't good any more.