Scottish mountains - how on earth can anyone pronounce them?

[Peewiglet]

I've been poring over the map of Scotland, but no sooner to I begin to
develop an idea of where I might like to walk than I forget where it
was, because I can't begin to pronounce about 95% of the place names.

Is it all a malignant plot to keep nesh Southerners out?

How on earth does anyone ever tell anyone else where they've been? Or
do those in the know just make a few gutteral grunting noises and make
it up as they go along?


Enquiring minds want to know...


(And can anyone please tell me how to pronounce Lairig Ghru??)


Thank you.



Best wishes,

[Rooney]

Post by Peewiglet
I've been poring over the map of Scotland, but no sooner to I begin to
develop an idea of where I might like to walk than I forget where it
was, because I can't begin to pronounce about 95% of the place names.
Is it all a malignant plot to keep nesh Southerners out?
How on earth does anyone ever tell anyone else where they've been? Or
do those in the know just make a few gutteral grunting noises and make
it up as they go along?
Enquiring minds want to know...
(And can anyone please tell me how to pronounce Lairig Ghru??)

Larrig Groo, if you want an Englsh person to have any idea where
you're talking about.
I find the names difficult to remember, for the same reason.

[Peewiglet]

On Tue, 14 Dec 2004 22:36:07 +0000, Rooney <***@aol.com> wrote:

[...]

Post by Rooney

Post by Peewiglet
(And can anyone please tell me how to pronounce Lairig Ghru??)

Larrig Groo,

Thanks :)

Post by Rooney
if you want an Englsh

But look: it's swallowed half your vowels already....

Post by Rooney
person to have any idea where
you're talking about.
I find the names difficult to remember, for the same reason.

You can say that again....




Best wishes,

[Syke]

Post by Peewiglet
I've been poring over the map of Scotland, but no sooner to I begin to
develop an idea of where I might like to walk than I forget where it
was, because I can't begin to pronounce about 95% of the place names.
Is it all a malignant plot to keep nesh Southerners out?
How on earth does anyone ever tell anyone else where they've been? Or
do those in the know just make a few gutteral grunting noises and make
it up as they go along?
Enquiring minds want to know...
(And can anyone please tell me how to pronounce Lairig Ghru??)
Thank you.
Best wishes,
--
,,
(**)PeeWiglet~~
/ \ / \

There's a series starting on 13th January (BBC 2) on that very subject. In
Gaelic with subtitles> Not sure if will be visible all over UK>


Regards

Pat Macguire

[Peewiglet]

On Tue, 14 Dec 2004 22:49:55 -0000, "Syke" <***@virgin.net>
wrote:

[...]

Post by Syke
There's a series starting on 13th January (BBC 2) on that very subject. In
Gaelic with subtitles> Not sure if will be visible all over UK>

Thank you! Synchronicity or what?! :)


Best wishes,

[spongebob]

Post by Peewiglet
I've been poring over the map of Scotland, but no sooner to I begin to
develop an idea of where I might like to walk than I forget where it
was, because I can't begin to pronounce about 95% of the place

names.

Post by Peewiglet
Is it all a malignant plot to keep nesh Southerners out?
How on earth does anyone ever tell anyone else where they've been? Or
do those in the know just make a few gutteral grunting noises and make
it up as they go along?

Try http://www.munromagic.com/

You can click and listen to the pronunciation.

Graham

[Peewiglet]

On Tue, 14 Dec 2004 22:52:00 GMT, "spongebob" <***@m.com> wrote:

[...]

Post by spongebob
Try http://www.munromagic.com/
You can click and listen to the pronunciation.

Thanks!


Best wishes,

[AndyP]

Post by spongebob
Try http://www.munromagic.com/
You can click and listen to the pronunciation.

You get some good effects from doing loads of clicks in quick succession.
(Some of us are easily amused).

[Peewiglet]

On Tue, 14 Dec 2004 23:15:58 -0000, "AndyP"

Post by AndyP

Post by spongebob
Try http://www.munromagic.com/
You can click and listen to the pronunciation.

You get some good effects from doing loads of clicks in quick succession.
(Some of us are easily amused).

Oooh yes! I see what you mean!! :-)

Wow, my head's spinning now!


Best wishes,

Post by spongebob
Try http://www.munromagic.com/
You can click and listen to the pronunciation.

Brilliant.

If your out on the hill without your iPod, Ralph Storer's "100 best routes
on Scottish mountains" has pronunciations.

Roy.

[C L Imber]

Post by spongebob
Try http://www.munromagic.com/

Superb website.

Thanks!

[Syke]

Post by Peewiglet

Post by Peewiglet
I've been poring over the map of Scotland, but no sooner to I begin

to

Post by Peewiglet
develop an idea of where I might like to walk than I forget where it
was, because I can't begin to pronounce about 95% of the place

names.

Post by Peewiglet
Is it all a malignant plot to keep nesh Southerners out?
How on earth does anyone ever tell anyone else where they've been?

Or

Post by Peewiglet
do those in the know just make a few gutteral grunting noises and

make

Post by Peewiglet
it up as they go along?

Try http://www.munromagic.com/
You can click and listen to the pronunciation.
Graham

But be careful. I wouldn't know myself, but a friend's wife, who is a native
Gaelic speaker, tells me the pronunciation on this site is not very good.

Regards

Pat Macguire

[spongebob]

Post by Syke
But be careful. I wouldn't know myself, but a friend's wife, who is a native
Gaelic speaker, tells me the pronunciation on this site is not very good.

Yes, I did wonder how much Gaelic varies across Western Scotland
(Liathach being the one everyone debates about -th =g or th =
silent?). The language is supposed to be logical, yet there seems to
be room for dispute?

Graham

[Simon Caldwell]

Post by spongebob
Yes, I did wonder how much Gaelic varies across Western Scotland
(Liathach being the one everyone debates about -th =g or th =
silent?). The language is supposed to be logical, yet there seems to
be room for dispute?

The bloke in the kilt who used to live in the derelict caravan by the
campsite in Torridon (and who now seems to live in one of the
(council?) houses there) was quite adamant that the correct
pronunciation is as it's spelled, ie Lee-ath-ach.

[spongebob]

Post by Simon Caldwell

Post by spongebob
Yes, I did wonder how much Gaelic varies across Western Scotland
(Liathach being the one everyone debates about -th =g or th =
silent?). The language is supposed to be logical, yet there seems to
be room for dispute?

The bloke in the kilt who used to live in the derelict caravan by the
campsite in Torridon (and who now seems to live in one of the
(council?) houses there) was quite adamant that the correct
pronunciation is as it's spelled, ie Lee-ath-ach.
--

Well there you go then. Torridon is the only place that pronounces
*th* the English way!

Graham

[Syke]

Post by Peewiglet

Post by Peewiglet
I've been poring over the map of Scotland, but no sooner to I begin

to

Post by Peewiglet
develop an idea of where I might like to walk than I forget where it
was, because I can't begin to pronounce about 95% of the place

names.

Post by Peewiglet
Is it all a malignant plot to keep nesh Southerners out?
How on earth does anyone ever tell anyone else where they've been?

Or

Post by Peewiglet
do those in the know just make a few gutteral grunting noises and

make

Post by Peewiglet
it up as they go along?

Oh, and if you're REALLY,REALLY interested, try and get hold of "Scottish
Hill and Mountain Names" by Peter Drummond, published by Scottish
Mountaineering Trust, ISBN 0-907521-30-4. It'll probably tell you more than
you want to know but is interesting nevertheless.


Regards


Pat Macguire

[Dave Mclaughlin]

Post by Peewiglet
I've been poring over the map of Scotland, but no sooner to I begin to
develop an idea of where I might like to walk than I forget where it
was, because I can't begin to pronounce about 95% of the place names.
Is it all a malignant plot to keep nesh Southerners out?
How on earth does anyone ever tell anyone else where they've been? Or
do those in the know just make a few gutteral grunting noises and make
it up as they go along?
Enquiring minds want to know...
(And can anyone please tell me how to pronounce Lairig Ghru??)
Thank you.
Best wishes,

Someone posted a web page here a while back. It had a list of Scottish
mountains and .wav files so you could hear the correct pronunciation.
I'll see if I can dig it out.....

[Peewiglet]

On Tue, 14 Dec 2004 22:52:55 GMT, Dave Mclaughlin <***@bloggs.com>
wrote:

[...]

Post by Dave Mclaughlin
Someone posted a web page here a while back. It had a list of Scottish
mountains and .wav files so you could hear the correct pronunciation.
I'll see if I can dig it out.....

Thanks :)


Best wishes,

[Dave Mclaughlin]

Post by Dave Mclaughlin

Post by Peewiglet
I've been poring over the map of Scotland, but no sooner to I begin to
develop an idea of where I might like to walk than I forget where it
was, because I can't begin to pronounce about 95% of the place names.
Is it all a malignant plot to keep nesh Southerners out?
How on earth does anyone ever tell anyone else where they've been? Or
do those in the know just make a few gutteral grunting noises and make
it up as they go along?
Enquiring minds want to know...
(And can anyone please tell me how to pronounce Lairig Ghru??)
Thank you.
Best wishes,

Someone posted a web page here a while back. It had a list of Scottish
mountains and .wav files so you could hear the correct pronunciation.
I'll see if I can dig it out.....

Spongebob beat me to it - by about 30 seconds!!

http://www.munromagic.com/

[Peewiglet]

On Tue, 14 Dec 2004 23:03:13 GMT, Dave Mclaughlin <***@bloggs.com>
wrote:

[...]

Post by Dave Mclaughlin
Spongebob beat me to it - by about 30 seconds!!
http://www.munromagic.com/

Thank you too :-)


Best wishes,

[Sandy Birrell]

Post by Peewiglet
I've been poring over the map of Scotland, but no sooner to I begin to
develop an idea of where I might like to walk than I forget where it
was, because I can't begin to pronounce about 95% of the place names.
Is it all a malignant plot to keep nesh Southerners out?
How on earth does anyone ever tell anyone else where they've been? Or
do those in the know just make a few gutteral grunting noises and make
it up as they go along?
Enquiring minds want to know...
(And can anyone please tell me how to pronounce Lairig Ghru??)
Thank you.
Best wishes,

Knowing how much you like to shop, these might help :)

http://www.hillwalker.org.uk/Products/Hillwalker/Munros/4/Reviews%20by%20Professionals/TM4%20Montagnes%20et%20Collines(in%20English).htm

I don't know how good they are, maybe someone else does.

[Peewiglet]

On Tue, 14 Dec 2004 23:01:51 GMT, "Sandy Birrell"
<***@ftscotland.co.uk> wrote:

[...]

Post by Sandy Birrell
Knowing how much you like to shop, these might help :)
http://www.hillwalker.org.uk/Products/Hillwalker/Munros/4/Reviews%20by%20Professionals/TM4%20Montagnes%20et%20Collines(in%20English).htm

Kewl, thanks!


Best wishes,

[BeauGeste]

ok I'm drunk now, after the office christmas dinner but...
Hmm - God know if this has already been posted - why doesn't stuff just
work...? Bah humbug... Anyway, as I was saying...


1. Ignore Ralph Storer! Before I became a munro-bagger I followed his
routes and climbed the middle 2 peaks of the South Shiel Ridge. Middle
two? What use was that!! Any decent guide would have told you to get
off your bum and do the whole ridge, 7 munros and all. Which I did
several years later, feeling aggrieved that I was having to repeat a
couple because of Ralph Storer.

2. I hate the use of the word 'kewl'! Please bring back flogging for
all who should know better...

3. Finally, more to the point, I just try and pronounce the Scottish
hills in English. So when I've taken a pic on my digital I press the
record button and say 'This is me at the top of 'Sgoor Fuooar Fuill'
(Sgurr Fhuar-thuill). Totally mispronounced, of course, but what the
hell, eh. As long as it means something to you.

[Phil Cook]

Post by BeauGeste
1. Ignore Ralph Storer! Before I became a munro-bagger I followed his
routes and climbed the middle 2 peaks of the South Shiel Ridge. Middle
two? What use was that!! Any decent guide would have told you to get
off your bum and do the whole ridge, 7 munros and all. Which I did
several years later, feeling aggrieved that I was having to repeat a
couple because of Ralph Storer.

Fine. But Storer never said his book was intended for Munro Baggers
did he? No, just the best 100 routes on Scottish Mountains. He's a bit
over-keen on steep (do I someone say precipitous?) grass slopes for
descent but that book is one of the best of it's kind.

Post by BeauGeste
2. I hate the use of the word 'kewl'! Please bring back flogging for
all who should know better...
3. Finally, more to the point, I just try and pronounce the Scottish
hills in English. So when I've taken a pic on my digital I press the
record button and say 'This is me at the top of 'Sgoor Fuooar Fuill'
(Sgurr Fhuar-thuill). Totally mispronounced, of course, but what the
hell, eh. As long as it means something to you.

Why not just call the hills by the translation of their name into
English? Sgurr Fuar-Thuill becomes peak of the cold hollow, simple.

It is said that more than 50% of baggers don't even know which hill
they are on.

Post by Phil Cook

Post by BeauGeste
1. Ignore Ralph Storer! Before I became a munro-bagger I followed his
routes and climbed the middle 2 peaks of the South Shiel Ridge. Middle
two? What use was that!! Any decent guide would have told you to get
off your bum and do the whole ridge, 7 munros and all. Which I did
several years later, feeling aggrieved that I was having to repeat a
couple because of Ralph Storer.

Fine. But Storer never said his book was intended for Munro Baggers
did he? No, just the best 100 routes on Scottish Mountains. He's a bit
over-keen on steep (do I someone say precipitous?) grass slopes for
descent but that book is one of the best of it's kind.

I was going to say that's why Storer didn't call his book "Munro bagging for
purile tickers" but you sort of beat me to it.

Kewl!!!

Roy.

[BeauGeste]

I think the reason he didn't call it "Munro bagging for purile tickers"
might have been because he could spell puerile.

Post by BeauGeste
I think the reason he didn't call it "Munro bagging for purile tickers"
might have been because he could spell puerile.

Ah but you missed I said "your" instead of "you're"

[AndyP]

Post by BeauGeste
1. Ignore Ralph Storer! Before I became a munro-bagger I followed his
routes and climbed the middle 2 peaks of the South Shiel Ridge. Middle
two? What use was that!! Any decent guide would have told you to get
off your bum and do the whole ridge, 7 munros and all. Which I did
several years later, feeling aggrieved that I was having to repeat a
couple because of Ralph Storer.

Ralph does say in '100 Best Routes...' "The South Glen Shiel Ridge contains
no less than seven Munros, which can easily be ticked off in a day...". I
haven't done all the route up Aonach Air Chrith he describes but the knife
edge section of it which you'd miss out if you just bagged the Munro
traversing the main ridge is quite spectacular as I remember from several
years ago. Some of his routes are certainly best ignored but I don't think
that's one of them.

[BeauGeste]

Post by Peewiglet
On Tue, 14 Dec 2004 23:01:51 GMT, "Sandy Birrell"
[...]

Post by Sandy Birrell
Knowing how much you like to shop, these might help :)

http://www.hillwalker.org.uk/Products/Hillwalker/Munros/4/Reviews%20by%20Professionals/TM4%20Montagnes%20et%20Collines(in%20English).htm
Kewl, thanks!
Best wishes,
--
,,
(**)PeeWiglet~~
/ \ / \

ok I'm drunk now, after the office christmas dinner but...

1. Ignore Ralph Storer! Before I became a munro-bagger I followed his
routes and climbed the middle 2 peaks of the South Shiel Ridge. Middle
two? What use was that!! Any decent guide would have told you to get
off your bum and do the whole ridge, 7 munros and all. Which I did
several years later, feeling aggrieved that I was having to repeat a
couple because of Ralph Storer.

2. I hate the use of the word 'kewl'! Please bring back flogging for
all who should know better...

3. Finally, more to the point, I just try and pronounce the Scottish
hills in English. So when I've taken a pic on my digital I press the
record button and say 'This is me at the top of 'Sgoor Fuooar Fuill'
(Sgurr Fhuar-thuill). Totally mispronounced, of course, but what the
hell, eh. As long as it means something to you.

[spongebob]

Post by BeauGeste
3. Finally, more to the point, I just try and pronounce the Scottish
hills in English. So when I've taken a pic on my digital I press the
record button and say 'This is me at the top of 'Sgoor Fuooar Fuill'
(Sgurr Fhuar-thuill). Totally mispronounced, of course, but what the
hell, eh. As long as it means something to you.

Kewl! Shurely you mean Sgur Fooar-thuil? ;-)

Graham

[bob watkinson]

Post by spongebob

Post by BeauGeste
3. Finally, more to the point, I just try and pronounce the Scottish
hills in English. So when I've taken a pic on my digital I press the
record button and say 'This is me at the top of 'Sgoor Fuooar Fuill'
(Sgurr Fhuar-thuill). Totally mispronounced, of course, but what the
hell, eh. As long as it means something to you.

Kewl! Shurely you mean Sgur Fooar-thuil? ;-)
Graham

Lets all try to annoy BeauGeste after 3. 1 - 2 - 3 KEWL!!!

[Peewiglet]

On Wed, 15 Dec 2004 11:21:55 -0000, "bob watkinson"

Post by bob watkinson

Post by spongebob

Post by BeauGeste
3. Finally, more to the point, I just try and pronounce the Scottish
hills in English. So when I've taken a pic on my digital I press the
record button and say 'This is me at the top of 'Sgoor Fuooar Fuill'
(Sgurr Fhuar-thuill). Totally mispronounced, of course, but what the
hell, eh. As long as it means something to you.

Kewl! Shurely you mean Sgur Fooar-thuil? ;-)
Graham

Lets all try to annoy BeauGeste after 3. 1 - 2 - 3 KEWL!!!

:-)


<fx: whispers... Kewl...>


Best wishes,

[unknown]

Post by Peewiglet

Post by bob watkinson
Lets all try to annoy BeauGeste after 3. 1 - 2 - 3 KEWL!!!

:-)
<fx: whispers... Kewl...>

KKKEEEWWWLLL!!!

Kewl is just one of the Coolest wurdz, after Cool I'd say, akshally
no, I'd put Kewl! Before Kewl and both before Cool!







SteveO

[BeauGeste]

Post by spongebob

Post by BeauGeste
3. Finally, more to the point, I just try and pronounce the

Scottish

Post by spongebob

Post by BeauGeste
hills in English. So when I've taken a pic on my digital I press the
record button and say 'This is me at the top of 'Sgoor Fuooar Fuill'
(Sgurr Fhuar-thuill). Totally mispronounced, of course, but what the
hell, eh. As long as it means something to you.

Kewl! Shurely you mean Sgur Fooar-thuil? ;-)
Graham

You know, Grahm, I think you're right!

Incidentally I appear to have been expunged. Oops. Was it that bad?
Sorry for raving but I have long-standing traditions of being a prat to
uphold at this time of year. Apologies if necessary.

[spongebob]

Post by BeauGeste
Incidentally I appear to have been expunged. Oops. Was it that bad?
Sorry for raving but I have long-standing traditions of being a prat to
uphold at this time of year. Apologies if necessary.

None needed. I've been waiting a long time for a decent troll to get
us going, but you seem a decent chap. Damn. C'mon, somebody do a
Thornbury......It's Christmas!

Graham

[Adrian Tupper]

Post by BeauGeste
Finally, more to the point, I just try and pronounce the Scottish
hills in English. So when I've taken a pic on my digital I press the
record button and say 'This is me at the top of 'Sgoor Fuooar Fuill'
(Sgurr Fhuar-thuill). Totally mispronounced, of course, but what the
hell, eh. As long as it means something to you.

Well, why not?

Actually I find some of the pronounciation guides rather pompous.
Take Cairn Gorm. Easy enough, yes? Not according to some publications
thattell you to pronounce the second word "Gorrum". Ignore them.
The Scots pronounciation of all words ending -rm is -rrum. The English
pronounciation is acceptable to an English accent.

Ditto, Carn Dearg etc can be pronounced "Jurg" rather than the
Scots "Jerr-ag" if you're speaking with an English accent.

However there's no excuse when it comes to pronouncing all those "-dh"s
which are silent. And all those "bh"s and "mh"s which are "v"s.

[Sandy Birrell]

Post by Adrian Tupper

Post by BeauGeste
Finally, more to the point, I just try and pronounce the Scottish
hills in English. So when I've taken a pic on my digital I press the
record button and say 'This is me at the top of 'Sgoor Fuooar Fuill'
(Sgurr Fhuar-thuill). Totally mispronounced, of course, but what the
hell, eh. As long as it means something to you.

Well, why not?
Actually I find some of the pronounciation guides rather pompous.
Take Cairn Gorm. Easy enough, yes? Not according to some
publications thattell you to pronounce the second word "Gorrum".
Ignore them.
The Scots pronounciation of all words ending -rm is -rrum. The
English pronounciation is acceptable to an English accent.
Ditto, Carn Dearg etc can be pronounced "Jurg" rather than the
Scots "Jerr-ag" if you're speaking with an English accent.
However there's no excuse when it comes to pronouncing all those
"-dh"s which are silent. And all those "bh"s and "mh"s which are
"v"s.

"dh" is a muffled 'g' as if you were breathing out as you say it, according
to the website below.

http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~fiski/gaelic.html

[spongebob]

Post by Adrian Tupper
Actually I find some of the pronounciation guides rather pompous.
Take Cairn Gorm. Easy enough, yes? Not according to some

publications

Post by Adrian Tupper
thattell you to pronounce the second word "Gorrum". Ignore them.
The Scots pronounciation of all words ending -rm is -rrum. The English
pronounciation is acceptable to an English accent.

Yes, I was thinking how a Yorkshireman would tell someone he was going
to Paris. Eh up love, Ah'm just of t' Pareee fer't weekend!

Graham

[RJ Webb]

Post by spongebob
Yes, I was thinking how a Yorkshireman would tell someone he was going
to Paris. Eh up love, Ah'm just of t' Pareee fer't weekend!

Only common English versions exist for very few Highland Hills....
(Cairngorm , Ben Nevis etc) Likewise common English versions exist for
only a few French towns, so if you are to invent new ones, in either
case, some sensitivity and taste please......

No Loony bins,or cheesecakes OK!

Save them for Trail.


Richard Webb

[Phil Cook]

Post by RJ Webb
Only common English versions exist for very few Highland Hills....
(Cairngorm , Ben Nevis etc) so if you are to invent new ones, some sensitivity and taste please......
No Loony bins,or cheesecakes OK!

Is that another name for Chrysanthemum, the hill otherwise known as
Sgurr nan Ceathreamhnan? Best translated as the beak of the quarters -
from the four corries presumably, except there are five of them.

[Tony Buckley]

Post by Phil Cook
Is that another name for Chrysanthemum, the hill otherwise known as
Sgurr nan Ceathreamhnan?

I think this is pronounced 'Kerranan', or at least that's how I pronounce
it. It has transmogrified in my mind into 'Kerrang', the peak of the
leather-clad hairy axe-crasher.

T.

[druidh]

Post by Tony Buckley

Post by Phil Cook
Is that another name for Chrysanthemum, the hill otherwise known as
Sgurr nan Ceathreamhnan?

I think this is pronounced 'Kerranan', or at least that's how I pronounce
it. It has transmogrified in my mind into 'Kerrang', the peak of the
leather-clad hairy axe-crasher.

Close - it's kay-her-an-an


druidh

[druidh]

Post by Phil Cook

Post by RJ Webb
Only common English versions exist for very few Highland Hills....
(Cairngorm , Ben Nevis etc) so if you are to invent new ones, some
sensitivity and taste please......
No Loony bins,or cheesecakes OK!

Is that another name for Chrysanthemum, the hill otherwise known as
Sgurr nan Ceathreamhnan? Best translated as the beak of the quarters -
from the four corries presumably, except there are five of them.

Cheesecake is Bidean a'Choire Sheasgaich - near Lurg Mhor

and where did you get Sgurr to be translated into beak :-))





druidh

[Phil Cook]

Post by druidh

Post by Phil Cook

Post by RJ Webb
No Loony bins,or cheesecakes OK!

Is that another name for Chrysanthemum

Cheesecake is Bidean a'Choire Sheasgaich - near Lurg Mhor

Doh! Of course.

Post by druidh
and where did you get Sgurr to be translated into beak :-))

I haven't the faintest idea. It's not like p and b are near each other
on the kb and I haven't touched a drop for all of two days...

[RJ Webb]

Post by Phil Cook

Post by druidh
and where did you get Sgurr to be translated into beak :-))

I haven't the faintest idea. It's not like p and b are near each other
on the kb and I haven't touched a drop for all of two days...

Subconcious soft mutation..... Been studying Welsh at any time in
your life/Welsh speaking relatives?


Richard Webb

[Adrian Tupper]

Post by RJ Webb

Post by spongebob
Yes, I was thinking how a Yorkshireman would tell someone he was going
to Paris. Eh up love, Ah'm just of t' Pareee fer't weekend!

Only common English versions exist for very few Highland Hills....
(Cairngorm , Ben Nevis etc)

So Cairngorm (Engligh pronounciation) is OK but <anything else>Gorm
should be said with a Scots dialect?

Going back to the French analogy, even cities which don't have English
equivalents (and I think only Paris and Dunkirk do) will be pronounced
differently in a French accent. We say Mont-Pell-Ear but they say
Mon-Pur-Li'ay (and we both write Montpellier) and we still understand
each other!

[RJ Webb]

Post by Adrian Tupper
Going back to the French analogy, even cities which don't have English
equivalents (and I think only Paris and Dunkirk do) will be pronounced
differently in a French accent. We say Mont-Pell-Ear but they say
Mon-Pur-Li'ay (and we both write Montpellier) and we still understand
each other!

What gets my goat is the ignornat inventions of new English names for
place names in countries that use a different alphabet as if it is
our own.

Fortunately we got the Russian ones right, Moscow instead of Mockba,
but why do folk piss on Welsh names in that manner.

Anglicisations are not bad, but they should be like they used to be,
based on the sound of the original, not the spelling.(see Irish hill
names, or Cairngorm. ( I use Cairngorm for the Glen More one and Carn
Gorm for the other 4, but thats just my habit)

eg.. Carneths iso Carneds

Also places like Wales and parts of England, Transylvania etc that
have different languages often use totally different names for places
in their respective languages. Llanandras - Presteigne , Llwydlo -
Ludlow , Brasso - Brasov - Kronstadt etc. The spelling of Paris in
English is probably a coincidence, its a different word.

A lot of peaks in the Mamores have English names...These are used by
locals in Kinlochleven. They are often translations of the Gaelic ,
they are genuine English names. Not clumsy puns and no need to try and
work out what version of Na Gruagaichean to use...

Richard Webb

[Adrian Tupper]

Post by RJ Webb
What gets my goat is the ignornat inventions of new English names for
place names in countries that use a different alphabet as if it is
our own.

Ancient ignorance. Like Jehova for God, which comes from the latin
writing of the hebrew Yahweh (=Jhvh in latin). Place names follow
the same pattern.

Post by RJ Webb
Fortunately we got the Russian ones right, Moscow instead of Mockba,
but why do folk piss on Welsh names in that manner.

Ignorance? But then again, why not put an s on the end of a Welsh
mountain to make it plural?

Post by RJ Webb
Anglicisations are not bad, but they should be like they used to be,
based on the sound of the original, not the spelling.(see Irish hill
names, or Cairngorm. ( I use Cairngorm for the Glen More one and Carn
Gorm for the other 4, but thats just my habit)
eg.. Carneths iso Carneds
Also places like Wales and parts of England, Transylvania etc that
have different languages often use totally different names for places
in their respective languages. Llanandras - Presteigne , Llwydlo -
Ludlow , Brasso - Brasov - Kronstadt etc. The spelling of Paris in
English is probably a coincidence, its a different word.

The Welsh do it with English names too. Bwcle for Buckley. Wrecsam
for Wrexham etc. I know these places are in Wales but the names are
English ones.

Porthmadog is a more extreme example.

Post by RJ Webb
A lot of peaks in the Mamores have English names...These are used by
locals in Kinlochleven. They are often translations of the Gaelic ,
they are genuine English names. Not clumsy puns and no need to try and
work out what version of Na Gruagaichean to use...

A bit like The Cobbler then.

[druidh]

Post by Adrian Tupper

Post by RJ Webb

Post by spongebob
Yes, I was thinking how a Yorkshireman would tell someone he was going
to Paris. Eh up love, Ah'm just of t' Pareee fer't weekend!

Only common English versions exist for very few Highland Hills....
(Cairngorm , Ben Nevis etc)

So Cairngorm (Engligh pronounciation) is OK but <anything else>Gorm
should be said with a Scots dialect?
Going back to the French analogy, even cities which don't have English
equivalents (and I think only Paris and Dunkirk do) will be pronounced
differently in a French accent. We say Mont-Pell-Ear but they say
Mon-Pur-Li'ay (and we both write Montpellier) and we still understand
each other!

Actually, I'd say Mon-Pur-Li'ay too - but them I'm from Edinburgh and grew
up near Montpellier Park and we always pronounced it the French way. Must be
all that Franco-Scottish crossover stuff. Like Petty France (actually Petit
France) where the new Infirmary is.


druidh

[RJ Webb]

Post by druidh
Actually, I'd say Mon-Pur-Li'ay too - but them I'm from Edinburgh and grew
up near Montpellier Park and we always pronounced it the French way. Must be
all that Franco-Scottish crossover stuff. Like Petty France (actually Petit
France) where the new Infirmary is.

Just asked a local('er indoors), and the pronounciation was pretty
standard English. As it was for the town with BF square....

BTW I am hopefully moving to that part of town soon, having been
kicked out of the current flat.

Richard Webb

[Adrian Tupper]

Post by druidh

Post by Adrian Tupper

Post by RJ Webb

Post by spongebob
Yes, I was thinking how a Yorkshireman would tell someone he was
going to Paris. Eh up love, Ah'm just of t' Pareee fer't weekend!

Only common English versions exist for very few Highland Hills....
(Cairngorm , Ben Nevis etc)

So Cairngorm (Engligh pronounciation) is OK but <anything else>Gorm
should be said with a Scots dialect?
Going back to the French analogy, even cities which don't have
English equivalents (and I think only Paris and Dunkirk do) will be
pronounced differently in a French accent. We say Mont-Pell-Ear but
they say Mon-Pur-Li'ay (and we both write Montpellier) and we still
understand each other!

Actually, I'd say Mon-Pur-Li'ay too - but them I'm from Edinburgh and
grew up near Montpellier Park and we always pronounced it the French
way. Must be all that Franco-Scottish crossover stuff. Like Petty
France (actually Petit France) where the new Infirmary is.

Good for you.

I'd separately heard that the Edinburgh version of the French city
(spelled with just one L for some odd reason) was pronounced
Mont-Peel-Eeya. Again from a local. Perhaps he lived on the other
side of the road from you, as it were ;-)

My favourite Edinburgh-French crossover is Burdiehouse, which
comes from Bordeaux House. Quite why that had to change I don't
know. Especially as Picardy Place survived in its original spelling.

[Michael Farthing]

Post by Peewiglet
I've been poring over the map of Scotland, but no sooner to I begin to
develop an idea of where I might like to walk than I forget where it
was, because I can't begin to pronounce about 95% of the place names.
Is it all a malignant plot to keep nesh Southerners out?
How on earth does anyone ever tell anyone else where they've been? Or
do those in the know just make a few gutteral grunting noises and make
it up as they go along?
Enquiring minds want to know...

The basic rule about Gaelic is that if in doubt about how a particular
letter or letter combination is pronounced, miss it out. You will be
correct more often than you are incorrect.

But for an expert opinion:

"The difficulties to be surmounted in studying and pronouncing Gaelic
are not at all so formidable or so numerous as they may at first sight
appear"

[MacLaren's Gaelic Self-Taught] Introduction

"The combination of lingual consonants with labials and also g and ch is
noted in that they interpolate an added vowel sound between them and one
generally correspondent to the preceding vowel. Thus, the combinations
ib, ich, ig, im, ip and so on, interpolate this distinct drawl vowel
between them. faibh [falu"v); alba (alabu"); tilg (tchy lyk) etc.
Similarly between the same groups of consonants when they come next each
other in compound words: ban-mhaighstir (banava"shtchyr)."

ibid, Para 37

Can't think what you're making a fuss about.

[Tony Buckley]

Post by Michael Farthing
Can't think what you're making a fuss about.

And quite right too. Just to recap then Michael, you pronounce Liathach
how...?

Tony
Who wonders what his name would look like were it given the gaelic treatment

[Michael Farthing]

Post by Tony Buckley

Post by Michael Farthing
Can't think what you're making a fuss about.

And quite right too. Just to recap then Michael, you pronounce Liathach
how...?

:-)

Llee ach

The double l as double ll in million, not as in Welsh.
'ch', of course, as in loch not church.

Well, that's what MacLaren says (I think), but he is a bit guarded:
Para 36: "th: in the middle and end of a word it is _generally_ silent"
[ie. It follows Farthing Para 1: "if in doubt, miss it out" - but only
_generally_ ].

My own view is that it is more sensible to climb it than to pronounce
it.
And it's super to run down.


PS Apologies for extra confusion added by me in post referred to: I made
all the consonant combinations begin with i instead of l

[Tony Buckley]

Post by Michael Farthing

Post by Tony Buckley
And quite right too. Just to recap then Michael, you pronounce Liathach
how...?

:-)

Good, that's how it was meant!

Post by Michael Farthing
Llee ach
[ie. It follows Farthing Para 1: "if in doubt, miss it out" - but only
_generally_ ].

I guessed that it would be that way. I'm all for making an effort with
Scottish Hill names, but that one seems to bamboozle the majority - and god
knows, I'm no expert! I settled on that pronunciation as (a) I've heard
some people who should know how to pronounce it say it that way, and (b)
it's easy to say. A defensible law of least resistance. I have heard
Leo-goch and Lee-attack defended as the One True Way as well, though I've
never had the knowledge, energy or all-round arsedness to argue - or to
change my pronunciation.

Post by Michael Farthing
My own view is that it is more sensible to climb it than to pronounce
it.

Strangely I haven't yet, but at least I'm prepared for when someone asks
'what did you do today?'. One for the (hopefully near) future.

T.

[Sandy Birrell]

Post by Tony Buckley

Post by Michael Farthing

Post by Tony Buckley
And quite right too. Just to recap then Michael, you pronounce
Liathach how...?

:-)

Good, that's how it was meant!

Post by Michael Farthing
Llee ach
[ie. It follows Farthing Para 1: "if in doubt, miss it out" - but
only _generally_ ].

Somewhere in the dark recesses of my mind I remember an interview with
Sorley Maclean, the Gaelic poet, and in it he was asked how various place
names should be pronounced, Liathach was one of them. If I remember right he
said it depended on where the gaelic speaker came from but the general
pronounciation and that used by the locals was Lia Gach, the 'g' being a
sort of stop of the tounge on the back of the pallet like a soft 'c' as in
loch.

As you can see by this map of 1832 it was spelt Leagach.

http://193.130.15.3:80/lizardtech/iserv/getimage?cat=Maps&item=/74400155.sid&cp=0.24362882059097454,0.10867558837101983&lev=1&wid=700&hei=500&

shorter link
http://makeashorterlink.com/?O2223690A

[Phil Cook]

Post by Sandy Birrell
As you can see by this map of 1832 it was spelt Leagach.
http://193.130.15.3:80/lizardtech/iserv/getimage?cat=Maps&item=/74400155.sid&cp=0.24362882059097454,0.10867558837101983&lev=1&wid=700&hei=500&
shorter link
http://makeashorterlink.com/?O2223690A

I like that spelling of Bealach :-)

[Sandy Birrell]

Post by Phil Cook

Post by Sandy Birrell
As you can see by this map of 1832 it was spelt Leagach.
http://193.130.15.3:80/lizardtech/iserv/getimage?cat=Maps&item=/74400155.sid&cp=0.24362882059097454,0.10867558837101983&lev=1&wid=700&hei=500&
shorter link
http://makeashorterlink.com/?O2223690A

I like that spelling of Bealach :-)

An english speaker writing down names as he hears them pronounced by the
people of the area, as you read through old maps you come across some
crackers :)

[Phil Cook]

Post by Sandy Birrell

Post by Phil Cook

Post by Sandy Birrell
As you can see by this map of 1832 it was spelt Leagach.
http://193.130.15.3:80/lizardtech/iserv/getimage?cat=Maps&item=/74400155.sid&cp=0.24362882059097454,0.10867558837101983&lev=1&wid=700&hei=500&
shorter link
http://makeashorterlink.com/?O2223690A

I like that spelling of Bealach :-)

An english speaker writing down names as he hears them pronounced by the
people of the area, as you read through old maps you come across some
crackers :)

I've just had a look at the Scotish Library maps online and have found
Ben Liughach on Bartholomew's 1892 map.

How do you get to the URL to show a specific area of map Sandy?

[Sandy Birrell]

Post by Phil Cook
I've just had a look at the Scotish Library maps online and have found
Ben Liughach on Bartholomew's 1892 map.
How do you get to the URL to show a specific area of map Sandy?

I'm using Opera . Once you have zoomed in to the part you want you right
click on the picture, that opens a drop down menu, choose 'copy image
address' and you can paste this into another window.

In IE 6 you have to right click the picture, in the drop down menu select
properties, and in there highlite the 'Address: (URL)', right click it and
copy and then paste this into another window.

I hope that is clear :)

[theo]

Post by Sandy Birrell
As you can see by this map of 1832 it was spelt Leagach.
http://193.130.15.3:80/lizardtech/iserv/getimage?cat=Maps&item=/74400155.sid&cp=0.24362882059097454,0.10867558837101983&lev=1&wid=700&hei=500&

Hee ! There's copyright on stuff like this. I'll have to call the OS now !
:-)

[Lachie]

sgrìobh Sandy Birrell

Post by Sandy Birrell

Post by Tony Buckley

Post by Michael Farthing

Post by Tony Buckley
And quite right too. Just to recap then Michael, you pronounce
Liathach how...?

:-)

Good, that's how it was meant!

Post by Michael Farthing
Llee ach
[ie. It follows Farthing Para 1: "if in doubt, miss it out" - but
only _generally_ ].

Somewhere in the dark recesses of my mind I remember an interview with
Sorley Maclean, the Gaelic poet, and in it he was asked how various place
names should be pronounced, Liathach was one of them.

It was the preamble to Muriel's Munro Show, it was pronounced by him, a
Skye speaker as you said. However an Islay or Harris speaker would
pronounce it quite differently.

Post by Sandy Birrell
If I remember right he
said it depended on where the gaelic speaker came from but the general
pronounciation and that used by the locals was Lia Gach, the 'g' being a
sort of stop of the tounge on the back of the pallet like a soft 'c' as in
loch.
As you can see by this map of 1832 it was spelt Leagach.

[Sandy Birrell]

Post by Lachie
sgrìobh Sandy Birrell
It was the preamble to Muriel's Munro Show, it was pronounced by him,
a Skye speaker as you said. However an Islay or Harris speaker would
pronounce it quite differently.

That's it, now I remember :) It has been a while since I watched those
videos, must look them out sometime.

[Chris Gilbert]

Post by Sandy Birrell
Somewhere in the dark recesses of my mind I remember an interview with
Sorley Maclean, the Gaelic poet, and in it he was asked how various place
names should be pronounced, Liathach was one of them. If I remember right he
said it depended on where the gaelic speaker came from but the

general

Post by Sandy Birrell
pronounciation and that used by the locals was Lia Gach, the 'g' being a
sort of stop of the tounge on the back of the pallet like a soft 'c' as in
loch.

Sorley was the standard reference for pronunciation on The Munro Show,
which is where you probably saw it. He did indeed say it should be
pronounced as you say but he also said that it was something of an
anomoly.

Chris

[Bernard Hill]

Post by Sandy Birrell

Post by Sandy Birrell
Somewhere in the dark recesses of my mind I remember an interview

with

Post by Sandy Birrell
Sorley Maclean, the Gaelic poet, and in it he was asked how various

place

Post by Sandy Birrell
names should be pronounced, Liathach was one of them. If I remember

right he

Post by Sandy Birrell
said it depended on where the gaelic speaker came from but the

general

Post by Sandy Birrell
pronounciation and that used by the locals was Lia Gach, the 'g'

being a

Post by Sandy Birrell
sort of stop of the tounge on the back of the pallet like a soft 'c'

as in

Post by Sandy Birrell
loch.

Sorley was the standard reference for pronunciation on The Munro Show,
which is where you probably saw it. He did indeed say it should be
pronounced as you say but he also said that it was something of an
anomoly.
Chris

Speaking of the Munro show, were there ever more than 2 videos of that?
I'd love to have seen more.

[druidh]

Post by Bernard Hill

Post by Sandy Birrell

Post by Sandy Birrell
Somewhere in the dark recesses of my mind I remember an interview

with

Post by Sandy Birrell
Sorley Maclean, the Gaelic poet, and in it he was asked how various

place

Post by Sandy Birrell
names should be pronounced, Liathach was one of them. If I remember

right he

Post by Sandy Birrell
said it depended on where the gaelic speaker came from but the

general

Post by Sandy Birrell
pronounciation and that used by the locals was Lia Gach, the 'g'

being a

Post by Sandy Birrell
sort of stop of the tounge on the back of the pallet like a soft 'c'

as in

Post by Sandy Birrell
loch.

Sorley was the standard reference for pronunciation on The Munro Show,
which is where you probably saw it. He did indeed say it should be
pronounced as you say but he also said that it was something of an
anomoly.
Chris

Speaking of the Munro show, were there ever more than 2 videos of that?
I'd love to have seen more.

The videos were extracts of the two series. Although the actual hillwalking
bits are fine, the other articles (e.g. access law, mountain bikes) haven't
aged very well. As for the fashions . . . .


The very worst thing is that they tried to follow it up with a quiz - The
Golden Cagoule - which really was cringeworthy.



druidh

[Simon Caldwell]

On Wed, 15 Dec 2004 13:31:31 -0000, "Tony Buckley"

Post by Tony Buckley
And quite right too. Just to recap then Michael, you pronounce Liathach
how...?

The bloke in the kilt who used to live in the derelict caravan by the
campsite in Torridon (and who now seems to live in one of the
(council?) houses there) was quite adamant that the correct
pronunciation is as it's spelled, ie Lee-ath-ach.

And he should know.

[Phil Cook]

Post by Simon Caldwell
On Wed, 15 Dec 2004 13:31:31 -0000, "Tony Buckley"

Post by Tony Buckley
And quite right too. Just to recap then Michael, you pronounce Liathach
how...?

The bloke in the kilt who used to live in the derelict caravan by the
campsite in Torridon (and who now seems to live in one of the
(council?) houses there) was quite adamant that the correct
pronunciation is as it's spelled, ie Lee-ath-ach.
And he should know.

Could it be that he coughed in the middle of Lee-ach?

If he's living in one of the houses then perhaps we will get some
sleep next time we visit.

I noticed that the woman that sometimes comes round to collect the
money had a new moped a year or two back. You could tell she had been
by with the old one by the pall of smoke.

[Lachie]

Capturing in this missive on, Sun, 19 Dec 2004, at 18:11:45, with the
sparing prose of Rambaud and displaying the suave and sophisticated
disposition of Archibald Leach, sgrìobh Simon Caldwell

Post by Simon Caldwell
On Wed, 15 Dec 2004 13:31:31 -0000, "Tony Buckley"

Post by Tony Buckley
And quite right too. Just to recap then Michael, you pronounce Liathach
how...?

The bloke in the kilt who used to live in the derelict caravan by the
campsite in Torridon (and who now seems to live in one of the
(council?) houses there) was quite adamant that the correct
pronunciation is as it's spelled, ie Lee-ath-ach.
And he should know.

Well it is a good job Sorley Maclean is deid then?

[Adrian Tupper]

Post by Lachie
Capturing in this missive on, Sun, 19 Dec 2004, at 18:11:45, with the
sparing prose of Rambaud and displaying the suave and sophisticated
disposition of Archibald Leach, sgrìobh Simon Caldwell

Post by Simon Caldwell
On Wed, 15 Dec 2004 13:31:31 -0000, "Tony Buckley"

Post by Tony Buckley
And quite right too. Just to recap then Michael, you pronounce Liathach
how...?

The bloke in the kilt who used to live in the derelict caravan by the
campsite in Torridon (and who now seems to live in one of the
(council?) houses there) was quite adamant that the correct
pronunciation is as it's spelled, ie Lee-ath-ach.
And he should know.

Well it is a good job Sorley Maclean is deid then?

Now spell his name the gaelic way.

[Lachie]

Capturing in this missive on, Mon, 20 Dec 2004, at 21:39:21, with the
sparing prose of Rambaud and displaying the suave and sophisticated
disposition of Archibald Leach, sgrìobh Adrian Tupper

Post by spongebob

Post by Lachie
Capturing in this missive on, Sun, 19 Dec 2004, at 18:11:45, with the
sparing prose of Rambaud and displaying the suave and sophisticated
disposition of Archibald Leach, sgrìobh Simon Caldwell

Post by Simon Caldwell
On Wed, 15 Dec 2004 13:31:31 -0000, "Tony Buckley"

Post by Tony Buckley
And quite right too. Just to recap then Michael, you pronounce

Liathach

Post by Lachie

Post by Simon Caldwell

Post by Tony Buckley
how...?

The bloke in the kilt who used to live in the derelict caravan by the
campsite in Torridon (and who now seems to live in one of the
(council?) houses there) was quite adamant that the correct
pronunciation is as it's spelled, ie Lee-ath-ach.
And he should know.

Well it is a good job Sorley Maclean is deid then?

Now spell his name the gaelic way.

http://www.isbuc.co.uk/People/SomMac.htm

[Michael Farthing]

Post by Simon Caldwell
On Wed, 15 Dec 2004 13:31:31 -0000, "Tony Buckley"

Post by Tony Buckley
And quite right too. Just to recap then Michael, you pronounce Liathach
how...?

The bloke in the kilt who used to live in the derelict caravan by the
campsite in Torridon (and who now seems to live in one of the
(council?) houses there) was quite adamant that the correct
pronunciation is as it's spelled, ie Lee-ath-ach.
And he should know.

Should he?
He's not the chap that was one of the original 7-up kids in the
programme done for ITV around 1965 is he? (They do a revisit every 7
years, but each time they find it even harder to get the originals to
take part). If so, he came from Brum or Liverpool or Glasgow or
somewhere else sassenach, forgotten just where..

[Adrian Tupper]

Caldwell

Post by Michael Farthing

Post by Simon Caldwell
On Wed, 15 Dec 2004 13:31:31 -0000, "Tony Buckley"

Post by Tony Buckley
And quite right too. Just to recap then Michael, you pronounce Liathach
how...?

The bloke in the kilt who used to live in the derelict caravan by the
campsite in Torridon (and who now seems to live in one of the
(council?) houses there) was quite adamant that the correct
pronunciation is as it's spelled, ie Lee-ath-ach.
And he should know.

Should he?
He's not the chap that was one of the original 7-up kids in the
programme done for ITV around 1965 is he? (They do a revisit every 7
years, but each time they find it even harder to get the originals to
take part). If so, he came from Brum or Liverpool or Glasgow or
somewhere else sassenach, forgotten just where..

I wouldn't shout that too loud in a Glasgow pub if I were you..

[Simon Caldwell]

On Mon, 20 Dec 2004 09:50:29 +0000, Michael Farthing

Post by Michael Farthing

Post by Simon Caldwell
The bloke in the kilt who used to live in the derelict caravan by the
campsite in Torridon (and who now seems to live in one of the
(council?) houses there) was quite adamant that the correct
pronunciation is as it's spelled, ie Lee-ath-ach.
And he should know.

Should he?
He's not the chap that was one of the original 7-up kids in the
programme done for ITV around 1965 is he?

I doubt it, he's extremely local.

[Peter Clinch]

Post by Simon Caldwell
The bloke in the kilt who used to live in the derelict caravan by the
campsite in Torridon (and who now seems to live in one of the
(council?) houses there) was quite adamant that the correct
pronunciation is as it's spelled, ie Lee-ath-ach.
And he should know.

I've heard several different pronunciations over the years, several from
people who "should know" and were quite adamant about it. They can't
all be right...

(I usually go for Lee-a-t(h)ach myself, as I just like the sound of it).

Pete.

[Simon Caldwell]

On Wed, 22 Dec 2004 08:44:39 +0000, Peter Clinch

Post by Peter Clinch
I've heard several different pronunciations over the years, several from
people who "should know" and were quite adamant about it. They can't
all be right...

Unless of course there are several equally valid pronunciations.

Scoan or skon?

;-)

[Sandy Birrell]

Post by Simon Caldwell
On Wed, 22 Dec 2004 08:44:39 +0000, Peter Clinch

Post by Peter Clinch
I've heard several different pronunciations over the years, several
from people who "should know" and were quite adamant about it. They
can't all be right...

Unless of course there are several equally valid pronunciations.
Scoan or skon?
;-)

Scoon :)

[Peter Clinch]

Post by Simon Caldwell
On Wed, 22 Dec 2004 08:44:39 +0000, Peter Clinch

Post by Peter Clinch
I've heard several different pronunciations over the years, several from
people who "should know" and were quite adamant about it. They can't
all be right...

Unless of course there are several equally valid pronunciations.

Entirely possible, but in that case the adamant folk still can't all be
right because they're saying this is *the* way it's pronounced...

Post by Simon Caldwell
Scoan or skon?

One of them wee cakey biscuit thingies with heaps of jam and cream and a
pot of tea! ;-)

Having been born and raised in South East England, moved to the Midlands
for University, shared flats with Northerners and then moved to Scotland
my own set of favoured pronunciations is quite a mixed bag! Add that to
an unusual accent (one of those cases where the first time you hear a
recording of yourself you've no idea who it is, and it sounds totally
different inside) and it's fairly atypical for people to place where I
come from just from my speech.

Pete.

[RJ Webb]

Post by Peter Clinch
Having been born and raised in South East England, moved to the Midlands
for University, shared flats with Northerners and then moved to Scotland
my own set of favoured pronunciations is quite a mixed bag! Add that to
an unusual accent (one of those cases where the first time you hear a
recording of yourself you've no idea who it is, and it sounds totally
different inside) and it's fairly atypical for people to place where I
come from just from my speech.

I am a bit similar... Scots / Herefordshire vocab in a strange
westcountryish accent. (resident in Somerset during childhood) Been
accused of coming from Portsmouth, which is the biggest British city
that I have never visited. Kids find it very confusing and its the
first question I get asked....

Usually accused of being a farmer (well close) but I judging by the
chatter at the back, I have now been outed as a pirate...


Richard Webb

[Adrian Tupper]

Post by RJ Webb
Been
accused of coming from Portsmouth, which is the biggest British city
that I have never visited.

Mine is Aberdeen. Although I have only driven through Bristol.

[Adrian Tupper]

Post by Peter Clinch

Post by Simon Caldwell
The bloke in the kilt who used to live in the derelict caravan by the
campsite in Torridon (and who now seems to live in one of the
(council?) houses there) was quite adamant that the correct
pronunciation is as it's spelled, ie Lee-ath-ach.
And he should know.

I've heard several different pronunciations over the years, several from
people who "should know" and were quite adamant about it. They can't
all be right...
(I usually go for Lee-a-t(h)ach myself, as I just like the sound of it).
Pete.

I used to, until someone assured me it was Lee-ag-ach. But that didn't
sound especially gaelic so I settled for Lee-a(g)h-ach. i.e the middle
consonnant is slightly softer than the last.

[Peewiglet]

On Wed, 15 Dec 2004 13:07:25 +0000, Michael Farthing
<***@cyclades.demon.co.uk> wrote:

[...]

Post by Michael Farthing
[MacLaren's Gaelic Self-Taught] Introduction
"The combination of lingual consonants with labials and also g and ch is
noted in that they interpolate an added vowel sound between them and one
generally correspondent to the preceding vowel. Thus, the combinations
ib, ich, ig, im, ip and so on, interpolate this distinct drawl vowel
between them. faibh [falu"v); alba (alabu"); tilg (tchy lyk) etc.
Similarly between the same groups of consonants when they come next each
other in compound words: ban-mhaighstir (banava"shtchyr)."
ibid, Para 37
Can't think what you're making a fuss about.

Yes, it's all much clearer now, thanks.

;-)




Best wishes,
--
,,
(**)PeeWiglet~~
/ \ / \

[Gordon Harris]

Post by Peewiglet
I've been poring over the map of Scotland, but no sooner to I begin to
develop an idea of where I might like to walk than I forget where it
was, because I can't begin to pronounce about 95% of the place names.
Is it all a malignant plot to keep nesh Southerners out?
How on earth does anyone ever tell anyone else where they've been? Or
do those in the know just make a few gutteral grunting noises and make
it up as they go along?

Just wait 'til you start on Wales!

[RJ Webb]

Post by Gordon Harris
Just wait 'til you start on Wales!

That is the easiest country in the world for pronouncable hill
names... I miss them as I struggle with Meallan Liath Coire Mhic
Dhughaill and Ben Tee.

Richard Webb

[RJ Webb]

Whats the problem?

Cobbler, Saddle, Broad Law ....


Richard Webb

[Adrian Tupper]

Post by Peewiglet
I've been poring over the map of Scotland, but no sooner to I begin to
develop an idea of where I might like to walk than I forget where it
was, because I can't begin to pronounce about 95% of the place names.
Is it all a malignant plot to keep nesh Southerners out?
How on earth does anyone ever tell anyone else where they've been? Or
do those in the know just make a few gutteral grunting noises and make
it up as they go along?
Enquiring minds want to know...
(And can anyone please tell me how to pronounce Lairig Ghru??)

That's one of the easier ones. Take a look at some of the peaks
in the Afric and Cannich areas.

[Simon Caldwell]

Post by Peewiglet
How on earth does anyone ever tell anyone else where they've been? Or
do those in the know just make a few gutteral grunting noises and make
it up as they go along?

http://www.smc.org.uk/books/books_hill_names.htm

Not just pronunciations but background information too.

[m***@googlemail.com]

Larik groo. The pass of Drew.

[Graham Seed]

Post by m***@googlemail.com
Larik groo. The pass of Drew.

You say that but English is much worse. My German friend pointed out
that the German language was fairly easy to follow as it was logical
whereas English was a minefield, demonstrated when we were on the
Worcester and Birmingham canal - as we passed a foreign couple on a boat
going the other way they shouted out that 'Wer-chester' was a lovely place!

Gaelic is fairly logical too once you know the rules.

Graham

[Tim Jackson]

On Sat, 27 May 2017 11:46:58 +0100, Graham Seed wrote...

Post by Graham Seed
You say that but English is much worse. My German friend pointed out
that the German language was fairly easy to follow as it was logical
whereas English was a minefield,

Some years ago I visted a German museum with a German friend, who was
translating the labels on various historical agricultural implements for
my benefit.

Eventually I realised what he meant by a "pluff".

Post by Graham Seed
Gaelic is fairly logical too once you know the rules.

So is Welsh. I was able to help a Canadian couple I once met half-way
up Corn Du in the Brecon Beacons. They pointed to Llyn Cwm Llwch on
their map and asked how on earth you could pronounce something with no
vowels. I explained that 'w' and 'y' are vowels in Welsh.

Mind you, I've no idea how the Welsh rules work to modify consonants at
the beginnings of words, e.g. fawr and mawr; fach and bach.

[Peter Clinch]

Post by Graham Seed

Post by m***@googlemail.com
Larik groo. The pass of Drew.

You say that but English is much worse. My German friend pointed out
that the German language was fairly easy to follow as it was logical
whereas English was a minefield, demonstrated when we were on the
Worcester and Birmingham canal - as we passed a foreign couple on a boat
going the other way they shouted out that 'Wer-chester' was a lovely place!

There was a young lady from Slough
Came down with a very bad cough
She wasn't to Know
It would last until now
I just hope the poor girl will pull through