Discussion:
OMM washed out
(too old to reply)
PeterC
2008-10-25 22:01:56 UTC
Permalink
Looks as if there might have been a drop of rain in the ELD.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/cumbria/7691020.stm
--
Peter.
You don't understand Newton's Third Law of Motion?
It's not rocket science, you know.
John Hee
2008-10-26 08:25:54 UTC
Permalink
Bit more than a drop - moved to headline news on BBC radio 4 8 am news!
--
John Hee
www.walkaboutintheuk.co.uk
Post by PeterC
Looks as if there might have been a drop of rain in the ELD.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/cumbria/7691020.stm
--
Peter.
You don't understand Newton's Third Law of Motion?
It's not rocket science, you know.
John Hee
2008-10-26 08:50:55 UTC
Permalink
Further links here
http://walkaboutuk.blogspot.com/2008/10/omm-lake-district-washout.html
--
John Hee
www.walkaboutintheuk.co.uk
Post by John Hee
Bit more than a drop - moved to headline news on BBC radio 4 8 am news!
--
John Hee
www.walkaboutintheuk.co.uk
Post by PeterC
Looks as if there might have been a drop of rain in the ELD.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/cumbria/7691020.stm
--
Peter.
You don't understand Newton's Third Law of Motion?
It's not rocket science, you know.
Fellwalker
2008-10-26 10:45:58 UTC
Permalink
Following up to PeterC
Post by PeterC
Looks as if there might have been a drop of rain in the ELD.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/cumbria/7691020.stm
woke up to radio saying 1000 fell runners lost on hills, some bloke at the
slate mine saying it should all be stopped and someone must be blamed. What
is the problem? Hopefully I wont be proved wrong in saying those sort of
people will cope, its just hard to *know* if they are safe and accounted
for.
--
Fellwalker M
Remove boots to email (google killed to avoid spam, known posters
whitelisted)
Judith
2008-10-26 11:21:08 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 26 Oct 2008 10:45:58 +0000, Fellwalker
Post by Fellwalker
Following up to PeterC
Post by PeterC
Looks as if there might have been a drop of rain in the ELD.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/cumbria/7691020.stm
woke up to radio saying 1000 fell runners lost on hills, some bloke at the
slate mine saying it should all be stopped and someone must be blamed. What
is the problem? Hopefully I wont be proved wrong in saying those sort of
people will cope, its just hard to *know* if they are safe and accounted
for.
Please don't tell Radio 4 that I sometimes go camping on my own with
only a tent, stove, sleeping bag, map, compass and bags of experience
and common sense. They'll have me locked up.

Judith
Sean
2008-10-26 14:39:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Judith
Please don't tell Radio 4 that I sometimes go camping on my own with
only a tent, stove, sleeping bag, map, compass and bags of experience
and common sense. They'll have me locked up.
The coverage on R4's 'Broadcasting House' this morning seemed very sensible
and well balanced at least. Always liked Broadcasting House. ;)
Judith
2008-10-26 14:42:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sean
Post by Judith
Please don't tell Radio 4 that I sometimes go camping on my own with
only a tent, stove, sleeping bag, map, compass and bags of experience
and common sense. They'll have me locked up.
The coverage on R4's 'Broadcasting House' this morning seemed very sensible
and well balanced at least. Always liked Broadcasting House. ;)
Ah, I hadn't arrived home at that time but may Listen Again. Ta.

Judith
sandy saunders
2008-10-26 15:46:55 UTC
Permalink
"> Please don't tell Radio 4 that I sometimes go camping on my own with
Post by Judith
only a tent, stove, sleeping bag, map, compass and bags of experience
and common sense. They'll have me locked up.
Me too .......... I often wonder the Lakeland Fells in snow and ice - alone
and sometimes in pretty rough conditions; been on the Helvellyn ridge in a
white-out. However, someone always knows my route, and if in any doubt I
reverse or take one of the 'escape routes' I have. I also carry extra food,
head torch, light-weight sleeping bag and survival bag, mobile phone (God
forbid!) GPS, and plenty of clothes! Maybe a bit OTT to some, but essential
for me.
--
Sandy Saunders @ www.thewalkzone.co.uk
'Mountains or Mole Hills, summiting
still brings the same excitement!'
Paul Saunders
2008-10-26 15:59:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by sandy saunders
Me too .......... I often wonder the Lakeland Fells in snow and ice -
alone and sometimes in pretty rough conditions; been on the Helvellyn
ridge in a white-out. However, someone always knows my route, and if
in any doubt I reverse or take one of the 'escape routes' I have. I
also carry extra food, head torch, light-weight sleeping bag and
survival bag, mobile phone (God forbid!) GPS, and plenty of clothes! Maybe
a bit OTT to some, but essential for me.
I think that's a wise precaution in full-on winter conditions. Besides, down
sleeping bags are pretty light and small these days, easy enough to add to
your backpack. I'd take a bivi bag rather than a survival bag though, and a
tiny stove with a small canister of gas wouldn't be a problem either. Or do
you take a flask of hot something?

Paul
--
http://www.wilderness-wales.co.uk
http://www.wilderness-images.co.uk
http://www.uk-rec-walking.co.uk
Fellwalker
2008-10-27 08:00:48 UTC
Permalink
Following up to Paul Saunders
Post by Paul Saunders
I think that's a wise precaution in full-on winter conditions. Besides, down
sleeping bags are pretty light and small these days, easy enough to add to
your backpack. I'd take a bivi bag rather than a survival bag though, and a
tiny stove with a small canister of gas wouldn't be a problem either. Or do
you take a flask of hot something?
I used to walk with a couple in the winter who when we stopped for lunch,
didnt have enough clothes to stay warm. A couple of times I asked what
would happen if they broke a leg, didnt get a sensible answer.
--
Fellwalker M
Remove boots to email (google killed to avoid spam, known posters
whitelisted)
sandy saunders
2008-10-27 08:17:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul Saunders
I think that's a wise precaution in full-on winter conditions. Besides,
down sleeping bags are pretty light and small these days, easy enough to
add to your backpack. I'd take a bivi bag rather than a survival bag
though, and a tiny stove with a small canister of gas wouldn't be a
problem either. Or do you take a flask of hot something?
Don't carry a stove, but I always take a flask of coffee whenever I go out
on a 'serious' walk (10 miles plus), be it in the mountains or on the South
Downs. Great to have a coffee in winter wedged between a couple of little
rock with a stunning view ....... or maybe sheltering from the elements!
However, a stove and coffee carried in winter conditions would be more
appropriate, as my flask is normally empty halfway through the walk.
--
Sandy Saunders @ www.thewalkzone.co.uk
'Mountains or Mole Hills, summiting
still brings the same excitement!'
Peter Clinch
2008-10-27 08:57:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul Saunders
I think that's a wise precaution in full-on winter conditions. Besides, down
sleeping bags are pretty light and small these days, easy enough to add to
your backpack.
OTOH they're also a bit crap if they get wet, which in a survival
situation is a lot more likely than at a planned camp/snowhole.
Post by Paul Saunders
I'd take a bivi bag rather than a survival bag though
Check out the Blizzard Pack: it's waterproof, roughly equivalent to a 3
season sleeping bag, and is vacuum packed down to about the size of a
VHS cassette (if you can remember what they are!).

http://www.blizzardsurvival.com/

Pals leading a ski tour in Norway used one "in anger" whena client
twisted a knee badly in a fall. They parked him in the Blizzard bag
while they waited for a skidoo to carry him out (some time!), and the
casualty reported being usefully warm.

The only catch is they're a can of worms as regards putting them back
(Blizzard do a repacking service, I understand). Also a bit noisy and
more prone to condensation than a normal bag, so not a replacement in
standard use, but they seem to be the puppy's privates for an emergency bag.
Post by Paul Saunders
tiny stove with a small canister of gas wouldn't be a problem either. Or do
you take a flask of hot something?
I prefer a flask in winter: much less faff, especially as the degree of
want/need for a hot drink correlates very well with the awkwardness of
getting a brew on if you're not inside.
In the snow in Norway it's very unusual for folk not to have a flask,
and a flask filling service is standard at the huts.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net ***@dundee.ac.uk http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/
Fellwalker
2008-10-27 09:06:37 UTC
Permalink
Following up to Peter Clinch
Post by Peter Clinch
http://www.blizzardsurvival.com/
I think i will get one of those, Ive also lost my first aid kit, any
recommendations on a current good one? I'm thinking "cut finger" repair etc
plus maybe instructions what to do in serious situation while waiting for
help?
--
Fellwalker M
Remove boots to email (google killed to avoid spam, known posters
whitelisted)
Peter Clinch
2008-10-27 09:25:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Fellwalker
Ive also lost my first aid kit, any
recommendations on a current good one? I'm thinking "cut finger" repair etc
plus maybe instructions what to do in serious situation while waiting for
help?
What I do, and what I think is best, is find a suitable baggie and then
fill it up by wandering round Boots' or similar First Aid section and
add stuff you want and are happy with. But a roll of gaffer tape will
do most stuff acceptably well.

Instructions... if it's serious you don't want to be pratting about
reading obstructions. Take a first aid course, plenty available
generally in 1 or 2 day formats.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net ***@dundee.ac.uk http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/
Kate XXXXXX
2008-10-27 10:59:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter Clinch
Post by Fellwalker
Ive also lost my first aid kit, any
recommendations on a current good one? I'm thinking "cut finger" repair etc
plus maybe instructions what to do in serious situation while waiting for
help?
What I do, and what I think is best, is find a suitable baggie and then
fill it up by wandering round Boots' or similar First Aid section and
add stuff you want and are happy with. But a roll of gaffer tape will
do most stuff acceptably well.
Instructions... if it's serious you don't want to be pratting about
reading obstructions. Take a first aid course, plenty available
generally in 1 or 2 day formats.
Pete.
In addition, if it isn't covered by a standard first aid course, learn
how to recognise someone having a hypo, how to treat it if they are
still upright and vaguely coherent, and what to do when they are fitting
or unconcious. Learn to administer a Glucogon injection (comes in an
orange plastic pack, like this: >
Loading Image...)
and how to take a blood sugar reading. Neither is difficult, but
failure to panic and a steady hand help.

Another good one to add to the list is learning when and how to use an
EpiPen (> http://www.epipen.com/howtouse.aspx)if someone has a violent
allergic reaction to something. I ought to have one for wasp stings...

People who need these things *should* be carrying them with them on
expeditions. Make sure that their group leader (or a designated person
if they are the group leader) know their condition, where their kit is,
and how to use it.

A diabetic may also be carrying Glucogel, a clear glucose gel in easily
administered tubes. If not, a tablespoon of runny honey works as well.
Solid and liquid revivers should not be used if the person is
unconcious or fitting. But you knew that...
--
Kate XXXXXX R.C.T.Q Madame Chef des Trolls
Lady Catherine, Wardrobe Mistress of the Chocolate Buttons
http://www.katedicey.co.uk
Click on Kate's Pages and explore!
Fellwalker
2008-10-27 11:04:07 UTC
Permalink
Following up to Kate XXXXXX
Post by Kate XXXXXX
I ought to have one for wasp stings...
I ought to have a lot of stuff and knowledge, I ought to go on a course,
but I wont of course.....
--
Fellwalker M
Remove boots to email (google killed to avoid spam, known posters
whitelisted)
Kate XXXXXX
2008-10-27 12:26:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Fellwalker
Following up to Kate XXXXXX
Post by Kate XXXXXX
I ought to have one for wasp stings...
I ought to have a lot of stuff and knowledge, I ought to go on a course,
but I wont of course.....
I've had to administer a Glucogon injection. Luckily the Son & Heir to
the Fambly Debts and I were taught how by the ambulance crew last time I
needed help. This time I did the failure to panic and administered it
while awaiting the crew.

If there's enough time and he's about, I might get the boy to do it
another time. The experience will be good for him.

I need to talk to the doc about an EpiPen. Still not sorted that one
out, and after the last wasp sting came up 10" across and 1" high, it
would be foolish not to. If I get stung on the face or neck, it could
be a lot more inconvenient than the leg sting that took me to the minor
injuries clinic.
--
Kate XXXXXX R.C.T.Q Madame Chef des Trolls
Lady Catherine, Wardrobe Mistress of the Chocolate Buttons
http://www.katedicey.co.uk
Click on Kate's Pages and explore!
Fellwalker
2008-10-27 12:56:43 UTC
Permalink
Following up to Kate XXXXXX
Post by Kate XXXXXX
after the last wasp sting came up 10" across and 1" high, i
eeekk!
--
Fellwalker M
Remove boots to email (google killed to avoid spam, known posters
whitelisted)
Kate XXXXXX
2008-10-27 13:49:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Fellwalker
Following up to Kate XXXXXX
Post by Kate XXXXXX
after the last wasp sting came up 10" across and 1" high, i
eeekk!
Yeah... It hurt!
--
Kate XXXXXX R.C.T.Q Madame Chef des Trolls
Lady Catherine, Wardrobe Mistress of the Chocolate Buttons
http://www.katedicey.co.uk
Click on Kate's Pages and explore!
Fellwalker
2008-10-27 13:52:28 UTC
Permalink
Following up to Kate XXXXXX
Post by Kate XXXXXX
Post by Fellwalker
Following up to Kate XXXXXX
Post by Kate XXXXXX
after the last wasp sting came up 10" across and 1" high, i
eeekk!
Yeah... It hurt!
maybe you should be Kate ZZZZZZ? I assume the XXX's are for anonomity (a
good idea given some of the nutters around usenet) and you neither carry a
cask of 6X in the hills or are blowing us all kisses? :-)
--
Fellwalker M
Remove boots to email (google killed to avoid spam, known posters
whitelisted)
Kate XXXXXX
2008-10-27 14:52:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Fellwalker
Following up to Kate XXXXXX
Post by Kate XXXXXX
Post by Fellwalker
Following up to Kate XXXXXX
Post by Kate XXXXXX
after the last wasp sting came up 10" across and 1" high, i
eeekk!
Yeah... It hurt!
maybe you should be Kate ZZZZZZ? I assume the XXX's are for anonomity (a
good idea given some of the nutters around usenet) and you neither carry a
cask of 6X in the hills or are blowing us all kisses? :-)
Bit of each! ;) Mmmm... Wadworth's 6X... I think I slightly prefer
Wytchwood's Black Witch and Nelson's Admiral's Blood.

Actually, with a working website with contact details, and an entry in
yell.com for work, I'm findable. Also, see sig... :D Website full of
insane sewing projects...
--
Kate XXXXXX R.C.T.Q Madame Chef des Trolls
Lady Catherine, Wardrobe Mistress of the Chocolate Buttons
http://www.katedicey.co.uk
Click on Kate's Pages and explore!
Fellwalker
2008-10-27 16:14:40 UTC
Permalink
Following up to Kate XXXXXX
Post by Kate XXXXXX
Bit of each! ;) Mmmm... Wadworth's 6X... I think I slightly prefer
Wytchwood's Black Witch and Nelson's Admiral's Blood.
dont think ive tried them
Post by Kate XXXXXX
Actually, with a working website with contact details, and an entry in
yell.com for work, I'm findable. Also, see sig... :D Website full of
insane sewing projects...
ahhh, I didnt look down there!
--
Fellwalker M
Remove boots to email (google killed to avoid spam, known posters
whitelisted)
Kate XXXXXX
2008-10-27 17:00:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Fellwalker
Following up to Kate XXXXXX
Post by Kate XXXXXX
Bit of each! ;) Mmmm... Wadworth's 6X... I think I slightly prefer
Wytchwood's Black Witch and Nelson's Admiral's Blood.
dont think ive tried them
Knife & fork beers, both...
http://www.wychwood.co.uk/beers_blackwych.htm

Can't access Nelson at the moment, but they are based in Chatham
Historic Dockyard.
Post by Fellwalker
Post by Kate XXXXXX
Actually, with a working website with contact details, and an entry in
yell.com for work, I'm findable. Also, see sig... :D Website full of
insane sewing projects...
ahhh, I didnt look down there!
Hehehehe...

To drag it back closer to te topic... For a person in the early stages
of a hypo, a draft of good ale will bring them round nicely but short
term: follow it up with a good doorstep sarnie with a nice filling of
ham or cheese. Alcohol isn't really advised for hypos as longer term it
will depress the blood sugar (this is why those with hypos and drunks
often behave in very similar manners: both suffer from low blood sugar
affecting the brain).
--
Kate XXXXXX R.C.T.Q Madame Chef des Trolls
Lady Catherine, Wardrobe Mistress of the Chocolate Buttons
http://www.katedicey.co.uk
Click on Kate's Pages and explore!
Fellwalker
2008-10-28 09:04:04 UTC
Permalink
Following up to Kate XXXXXX
Post by Kate XXXXXX
Knife & fork beers, both...
http://www.wychwood.co.uk/beers_blackwych.htm
Can't access Nelson at the moment, but they are based in Chatham
Historic Dockyard.
ahhh, I like something lighter like Old Peculier :-)
--
Fellwalker M
Remove boots to email (google killed to avoid spam, known posters
whitelisted)
PeterC
2008-10-28 11:55:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Fellwalker
Following up to Kate XXXXXX
Post by Kate XXXXXX
Knife & fork beers, both...
http://www.wychwood.co.uk/beers_blackwych.htm
Can't access Nelson at the moment, but they are based in Chatham
Historic Dockyard.
ahhh, I like something lighter like Old Peculier :-)
Ican assure you that after 10 pints, OP seems very light indeed.
--
Peter.
You don't understand Newton's Third Law of Motion?
It's not rocket science, you know.
Judith
2008-10-27 19:42:57 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 27 Oct 2008 09:25:40 +0000, Peter Clinch
Post by Peter Clinch
Post by Fellwalker
Ive also lost my first aid kit, any
recommendations on a current good one? I'm thinking "cut finger" repair etc
plus maybe instructions what to do in serious situation while waiting for
help?
What I do, and what I think is best, is find a suitable baggie and then
fill it up by wandering round Boots' or similar First Aid section and
add stuff you want and are happy with. But a roll of gaffer tape will
do most stuff acceptably well.
I made my own as it meant I was carrying the things *I* thought I
would need rather than all the other things the manufacturer thought I
would need.

Antiseptic wipes, antiseptic cream, various plasters and plaster
strips, paracetamol, ibuprofen, safety pins and I think there's some
Immodium in there but it's probably past its use-by date now!

I need to replace the strip of plaster as I found it was not sticking
very well when I used it on my gashed hand in the Glyders. Ideally I
would check the kit every time I use it...... but who does?!
Post by Peter Clinch
Instructions... if it's serious you don't want to be pratting about
reading obstructions. Take a first aid course, plenty available
generally in 1 or 2 day formats.
That's good advice that I have been meaning to take for years and
years and years.

Judith
Paul Saunders
2008-10-27 12:17:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter Clinch
Post by Paul Saunders
I think that's a wise precaution in full-on winter conditions.
Besides, down sleeping bags are pretty light and small these days,
easy enough to add to your backpack.
OTOH they're also a bit crap if they get wet, which in a survival
situation is a lot more likely than at a planned camp/snowhole.
True, but if we're talking snow rather than rain then they shouldn't get
that wet. Besides, I'm not going to lug a heavy, bulky synthetic sleeping
bag around on a day walk, so if it's a choice between a small down bag or
nothing, the former is the better choice. Like most people, I don't go out
expecting to have an accident, so I'm not going to carry half a ton of
emergency gear just in case. But if I can add a few lightweight, low bulk
extras to my rucksack and not really notice it, then that's fine.
Post by Peter Clinch
Post by Paul Saunders
I'd take a bivi bag rather than a survival bag though
Check out the Blizzard Pack: it's waterproof, roughly equivalent to a
3 season sleeping bag, and is vacuum packed down to about the size of
a VHS cassette (if you can remember what they are!).
http://www.blizzardsurvival.com/
Wow! Forget Gore-Tex and down! We should be wearing this stuff all the time!
Post by Peter Clinch
Post by Paul Saunders
tiny stove with a small canister of gas wouldn't be a problem
either. Or do you take a flask of hot something?
I prefer a flask in winter: much less faff, especially as the degree
of want/need for a hot drink correlates very well with the
awkwardness of getting a brew on if you're not inside.
I agree, I prefer a flask too. I was just thinking of situations where you
might be stuck outside for a long time. The contents of the flask will run
out pretty quickly, but a stove will keep you going a lot longer, and you
won't have any trouble finding water if you're out in the snow. You could
use the boiled water to refill the flask, saving you the hassle of using the
stove too often, and you could also carry some dried food for very little
extra weight. Best if you're going somewhere remote where you might be stuck
for a long time if something happened.

Paul
--
http://www.wilderness-wales.co.uk
http://www.wilderness-images.co.uk
http://www.uk-rec-walking.co.uk
Fellwalker
2008-10-27 07:59:31 UTC
Permalink
Following up to sandy saunders
Post by sandy saunders
I often wonder the Lakeland Fells in snow and ice - alone
and sometimes in pretty rough conditions; been on the Helvellyn ridge in a
white-out. However, someone always knows my route, and if in any doubt I
reverse or take one of the 'escape routes' I have. I also carry extra food,
head torch, light-weight sleeping bag and survival bag, mobile phone (God
forbid!) GPS, and plenty of clothes! Maybe a bit OTT to some, but essential
for me.
and if you talk to MRT, the work load they have is from ill prepared and
unwilling to try and self rescue incompetents, not your regular hill
walker.
--
Fellwalker M
Remove boots to email (google killed to avoid spam, known posters
whitelisted)
Simon
2008-10-26 11:23:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Fellwalker
Following up to PeterC
Post by PeterC
Looks as if there might have been a drop of rain in the ELD.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/cumbria/7691020.stm
woke up to radio saying 1000 fell runners lost on hills, some bloke at the
slate mine saying it should all be stopped and someone must be blamed. What
is the problem? Hopefully I wont be proved wrong in saying those sort of
people will cope, its just hard to *know* if they are safe and accounted
for.
My brother has just got back from taking part in it. Typical press
blowing it out of all proportion according to him. Most of these
"lost" runners were simply people who hadn't got in touch yet. The
weather was bloody awful (I was quite happy staying indoors most of
the day), but we're talking about people who can cope with that sort
of thing.

Oh, and since when has Mark Weir been the authority on all Lake
District weather matters? Apparently my brother turned up at Honister
where he was running around all over the place as if he was in charge
of the whole thing, shipping people down to Buttermere under some
assumption that there were buses to take them to Cockermouth. My
brother got the impression that his real goal was to simply get them
all out of his quarry as soon as possible.
--
Simon
Fellwalker
2008-10-26 11:29:11 UTC
Permalink
Following up to Simon
Post by Simon
My brother has just got back from taking part in it. Typical press
blowing it out of all proportion according to him. Most of these
"lost" runners were simply people who hadn't got in touch yet. The
weather was bloody awful (I was quite happy staying indoors most of
the day), but we're talking about people who can cope with that sort
of thing.
i was just reading of MRT teams being out, but then I saw the rescuees were
not on the marathon. The people who never leave big cities (like here in
London) will be calling for bans no doubt.
--
Fellwalker M
Remove boots to email (google killed to avoid spam, known posters
whitelisted)
Bernard
2008-10-26 13:51:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Fellwalker
Following up to Simon
Post by Simon
My brother has just got back from taking part in it. Typical press
blowing it out of all proportion according to him. Most of these
"lost" runners were simply people who hadn't got in touch yet. The
weather was bloody awful (I was quite happy staying indoors most of
the day), but we're talking about people who can cope with that sort
of thing.
i was just reading of MRT teams being out, but then I saw the rescuees were
not on the marathon. The people who never leave big cities (like here in
London) will be calling for bans no doubt.
--
Fellwalker M
Remove boots to email (google killed to avoid spam, known posters
whitelisted)
As of now 13:47 there are only 3 unaccounted for according tp the BBC here

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/cumbria/7691531.stm

"An RAF helicopter is helping in the search for three athletes still
unaccounted for after high winds and flooding in the Lake District.

About 2,500 runners were taking part in the two-day Original Mountain
Marathon near Keswick in Cumbria before it was called off on Saturday.

Many sheltered in farms and mines overnight and about 1,700 camped out. "
Chris Game
2008-10-26 14:36:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bernard
An RAF helicopter is helping in the search for three athletes
still unaccounted for after high winds and flooding in the Lake
District.
Let's hope the organisers are suitably insured to pay for these
various costs! Unfortunately, given recent forecasts of severe
weather, they won't be able to claim these conditions were
unexpected.
--
Chris Game

"If you ever find yourself on the side of the majority,
it is time to pause, and reflect." -- Mark Twain
Sean
2008-10-26 14:54:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Chris Game
Let's hope the organisers are suitably insured to pay for these
various costs!
You're trolling right? What costs?

Mountain Rescue is a charity that you may or may not choose to support, and
the RAF write these kind of missions off as search/rescue training. (And
very good training they are too - if they weren't taking part in this kind
of thing they'd have to simulate it anyway.)
Chris Lawrence
2008-10-26 19:13:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sean
Mountain Rescue is a charity that you may or may not choose to support, and
the RAF write these kind of missions off as search/rescue training. (And
very good training they are too - if they weren't taking part in this kind
of thing they'd have to simulate it anyway.)
I've just stuck the telly on and News 24 was salivating over the story,
as they do with 'disasters'. They were saying that the police and
mountain rescue were telling the organisers to call the event off before
it started. Predictably they were saying that the 'rescue' operation
was very costly and questions have to be asked as to whether this event
should be allowed to go ahead in the future if the weather forecast is poor.

They are presenting this as a load of SAS wannabees on a tougher than
normal charity hike getting out of their depth, and luckily making it
back, helped in part by the heroic efforts of mountain rescue. They
were using phrases like "...were forced to camp out for the night...",
seemingly forgetting that many of them would have been doing exactly that.

Sadly the masses will believe this spin and wail that "something must be
done". This kind of cheap, reality TV type reporting is really very
frustrating.

Chris
Bernard
2008-10-26 20:02:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Chris Lawrence
Post by Sean
Mountain Rescue is a charity that you may or may not choose to support, and
the RAF write these kind of missions off as search/rescue training. (And
very good training they are too - if they weren't taking part in this kind
of thing they'd have to simulate it anyway.)
I've just stuck the telly on and News 24 was salivating over the story,
as they do with 'disasters'. They were saying that the police and
mountain rescue were telling the organisers to call the event off before
it started. Predictably they were saying that the 'rescue' operation
was very costly and questions have to be asked as to whether this event
should be allowed to go ahead in the future if the weather forecast is poor.
They are presenting this as a load of SAS wannabees on a tougher than
normal charity hike getting out of their depth, and luckily making it
back, helped in part by the heroic efforts of mountain rescue. They
were using phrases like "...were forced to camp out for the night...",
seemingly forgetting that many of them would have been doing exactly that.
Sadly the masses will believe this spin and wail that "something must be
done". This kind of cheap, reality TV type reporting is really very
frustrating.
Chris
This is a classic example of the broadcasters trying to make the news rather
that reporting the news.

It's a pity there wasn't a bank going bankrupt somewhere, it would have
created a distraction.
Duncan Gray
2008-10-26 21:09:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bernard
This is a classic example of the broadcasters trying to make the news
rather that reporting the news.
The media will be very disappointed. They'd be looking for a repeat of the
'79 Fastnet Race.
Chris Game
2008-10-27 10:04:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sean
Post by Chris Game
Let's hope the organisers are suitably insured to pay for these
various costs!
You're trolling right? What costs?
Costs incurred by various premises that opened their doors to feed
and shelter hikers who were clearly in trouble, transport costs to
Cockermouth (?), costs of the helicopter support, MRT support and so
on. The fact that the RAF/MRT have their basic costs covered already
is hardly relevant.

Anyway, it turns out that the entry charges for the event were large
enough to cover a substantial insurance premium.
--
Chris Game

Bug? That's not a bug, that's a feature. -T. John Wendel
Fellwalker
2008-10-27 10:17:37 UTC
Permalink
Following up to Chris Game
Post by Chris Game
Costs incurred by various premises that opened their doors to feed
and shelter hikers who were clearly in trouble
"in trouble" or unable to reach their transport because of flood water? I
know a few were trapped by flood water, as were other people and there were
a dozen or so mild hypothermia cases. Was there much more?
--
Fellwalker M
Remove boots to email (google killed to avoid spam, known posters
whitelisted)
Peter Clinch
2008-10-27 10:46:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Fellwalker
Following up to Chris Game
Post by Chris Game
Costs incurred by various premises that opened their doors to feed
and shelter hikers who were clearly in trouble
"in trouble" or unable to reach their transport because of flood water? I
know a few were trapped by flood water, as were other people and there were
a dozen or so mild hypothermia cases. Was there much more?
I heard on the news yesterday that the bill to the taxpayer could run as
high as "several thousand pounds"!

I wonder how much policing the FA cup costs?

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net ***@dundee.ac.uk http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/
Peter Clinch
2008-10-27 10:50:22 UTC
Permalink
The report on Sleepmonsters seems a bit more clueful. See
http://www.sleepmonsters.co.uk/racereport.php?page_action=rep&race_id=6846&article_id=5437

I particularly like the wrap...

"When the BBC interviewed OMM Director Mike Parsons it was as though
they were speaking two different languages. The presenter became more
and more confused as each question was met by an unexpected answer,
until she eventually asked; “You mean there was no emergency here?”
Mike’s answer was, “No, not really.”

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net ***@dundee.ac.uk http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/
Fellwalker
2008-10-27 11:00:26 UTC
Permalink
Following up to Peter Clinch
Post by Peter Clinch
“You mean there was no emergency here?”
Mike’s answer was, “No, not really.”
I liked the title:- "Media Storm Hits the OMM"
--
Fellwalker M
Remove boots to email (google killed to avoid spam, known posters
whitelisted)
Kate XXXXXX
2008-10-27 12:20:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter Clinch
The report on Sleepmonsters seems a bit more clueful. See
http://www.sleepmonsters.co.uk/racereport.php?page_action=rep&race_id=6846&article_id=5437
I particularly like the wrap...
"When the BBC interviewed OMM Director Mike Parsons it was as though
they were speaking two different languages. The presenter became more
and more confused as each question was met by an unexpected answer,
until she eventually asked; “You mean there was no emergency here?”
Mike’s answer was, “No, not really.”
Pete.
Anyone got a YouTube or PlayAgain for that?
--
Kate XXXXXX R.C.T.Q Madame Chef des Trolls
Lady Catherine, Wardrobe Mistress of the Chocolate Buttons
http://www.katedicey.co.uk
Click on Kate's Pages and explore!
Chris Gilbert
2008-10-27 13:43:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter Clinch
"When the BBC interviewed OMM Director Mike Parsons it was as though
they were speaking two different languages. The presenter became more
and more confused as each question was met by an unexpected answer,
until she eventually asked; "You mean there was no emergency here?"
Mike's answer was, "No, not really."
I was particularly irritated that despite being put right about the
costs (ie MRT volunteers, SRT standing costs) the BBC still insisted
on presenting thier summary of events including "costs to the taxpayer".
I think Mike Parsons missed a trick though. He could have used
the opportunity to point out that, as taxpayers, the participants had
already funded and were entitled to any cover that might be required.
He did point out that many MRT members were taking part anyway
and that an awful lot of the folk that regularly participate in mountain
sports at this level contribute to MRT as a matter of course anyway.

Chris
--
Photography by Chris Gilbert
www.ravenseyegallery.co.uk
Affordable web sites
www.sitegateway.net
Bob Mannix
2008-10-27 13:52:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Chris Gilbert
Post by Peter Clinch
"When the BBC interviewed OMM Director Mike Parsons it was as though
they were speaking two different languages. The presenter became more
and more confused as each question was met by an unexpected answer,
until she eventually asked; "You mean there was no emergency here?"
Mike's answer was, "No, not really."
I was particularly irritated that despite being put right about the
costs (ie MRT volunteers, SRT standing costs) the BBC still insisted
on presenting thier summary of events including "costs to the taxpayer".
I think Mike Parsons missed a trick though. He could have used
the opportunity to point out that, as taxpayers, the participants had
already funded and were entitled to any cover that might be required.
He did point out that many MRT members were taking part anyway
and that an awful lot of the folk that regularly participate in mountain
sports at this level contribute to MRT as a matter of course anyway.
Chris
--
Photography by Chris Gilbert
www.ravenseyegallery.co.uk
Affordable web sites
www.sitegateway.net
Is it just me? I understand entirely the attraction, and right, of people to
enjoy the hills in poor weather and conditions as it is part of the
challenge. I agree the coverage was hysterical and based on poor
understanding. Nonetheless, I have a problem with mass events in the hills.
Had the weather been colder there might have been calls on the MRTs and
emergency services that would have been difficult to meet given the numbers
(there will always be a percentage who are not properly prepared, or
unlucky). So, it's not what they were all doing that I have a problem with
but so many doing it at the same time. It clogs the whole place up,
irritates those who go there for some quiet, puts a load on the services
etc.

If you want to yomp fast across the hills with a bivvy, absolutely, go for
it! Why do it en masse though? I similarly don't like 3 peaks challenges
etc - people from the rest of the country roaring about the roads at 3 in
the morning waking everyone up just so they can say they have done it - they
would be better off giving their costs to charity and staying at home,
keeping the peaks for another day!

Bah humbug! <ducks to avoid fusillade of sharpened walking poles>
--
Bob Mannix
(anti-spam is as easy as 1-2-3 - not)
Fellwalker
2008-10-27 14:04:35 UTC
Permalink
Following up to Bob Mannix
Post by Bob Mannix
I understand entirely the attraction, and right, of people to
enjoy the hills in poor weather and conditions as it is part of the
challenge. I agree the coverage was hysterical and based on poor
understanding. Nonetheless, I have a problem with mass events in the hills.
Yes, I dont care for mass events any more than I care for hysterical
reporting.
--
Fellwalker M
Remove boots to email (google killed to avoid spam, known posters
whitelisted)
Peter Clinch
2008-10-27 14:21:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bob Mannix
Is it just me? I understand entirely the attraction, and right, of people to
enjoy the hills in poor weather and conditions as it is part of the
challenge. I agree the coverage was hysterical and based on poor
understanding. Nonetheless, I have a problem with mass events in the hills.
Had the weather been colder there might have been calls on the MRTs and
emergency services that would have been difficult to meet given the numbers
(there will always be a percentage who are not properly prepared, or
unlucky). So, it's not what they were all doing that I have a problem with
but so many doing it at the same time. It clogs the whole place up,
irritates those who go there for some quiet, puts a load on the services
etc.
This is the 41st year it's taken place. It's at this time of year
specifically to make it challenging. There have been blizzard
conditions in previous years. And yet there is still an excellent
safety record.

As for irritating folk that go there for quiet, it's not a linear race
and 2,500 folk spread across that amount of Lake District on 7 different
races, often taking different routes on each course, is actually pretty
small beer in density terms. Unless you've chosen to camp next to a
checkpoint the impact isn't actually that great.
Post by Bob Mannix
If you want to yomp fast across the hills with a bivvy, absolutely, go for
it! Why do it en masse though?
It's a race so you get a competitive framework. Given the popularity of
competitive sport I don't think it's too much of a stretch to see some
folk will be attracted. Also, like orienteering, people do it to test
their abilities against something dreamed up specifically to stretch
them but not break them. You don't get that just by selecting your own
yomping course and putting in a bivvi.
Post by Bob Mannix
I similarly don't like 3 peaks challenges
etc - people from the rest of the country roaring about the roads at 3 in
the morning waking everyone up just so they can say they have done it - they
would be better off giving their costs to charity and staying at home,
keeping the peaks for another day!
It's not really anything like the 3P though, which is a lot of people
going up and down the same 3 tracks. A MM covers an /area/ and is a
true test of navigation, self reliance, fitness and general mountain smarts.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net ***@dundee.ac.uk http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/
Kate XXXXXX
2008-10-27 15:37:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter Clinch
Post by Bob Mannix
Is it just me? I understand entirely the attraction, and right, of people to
enjoy the hills in poor weather and conditions as it is part of the
challenge. I agree the coverage was hysterical and based on poor
understanding. Nonetheless, I have a problem with mass events in the hills.
Had the weather been colder there might have been calls on the MRTs and
emergency services that would have been difficult to meet given the numbers
(there will always be a percentage who are not properly prepared, or
unlucky). So, it's not what they were all doing that I have a problem with
but so many doing it at the same time. It clogs the whole place up,
irritates those who go there for some quiet, puts a load on the services
etc.
This is the 41st year it's taken place. It's at this time of year
specifically to make it challenging. There have been blizzard
conditions in previous years. And yet there is still an excellent
safety record.
As for irritating folk that go there for quiet, it's not a linear race
and 2,500 folk spread across that amount of Lake District on 7 different
races, often taking different routes on each course, is actually pretty
small beer in density terms. Unless you've chosen to camp next to a
checkpoint the impact isn't actually that great.
Post by Bob Mannix
If you want to yomp fast across the hills with a bivvy, absolutely, go for
it! Why do it en masse though?
It's a race so you get a competitive framework. Given the popularity of
competitive sport I don't think it's too much of a stretch to see some
folk will be attracted. Also, like orienteering, people do it to test
their abilities against something dreamed up specifically to stretch
them but not break them. You don't get that just by selecting your own
yomping course and putting in a bivvi.
Post by Bob Mannix
I similarly don't like 3 peaks challenges
etc - people from the rest of the country roaring about the roads at 3 in
the morning waking everyone up just so they can say they have done it - they
would be better off giving their costs to charity and staying at home,
keeping the peaks for another day!
It's not really anything like the 3P though, which is a lot of people
going up and down the same 3 tracks. A MM covers an /area/ and is a
true test of navigation, self reliance, fitness and general mountain smarts.
Pete.
And if, like me, you don't like doing this sort of thing, you keep
away... I'd never stop anyone who DID like doing it from doing it just
because I don't.
--
Kate XXXXXX R.C.T.Q Madame Chef des Trolls
Lady Catherine, Wardrobe Mistress of the Chocolate Buttons
http://www.katedicey.co.uk
Click on Kate's Pages and explore!
Chris Lawrence
2008-10-27 13:44:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter Clinch
The report on Sleepmonsters seems a bit more clueful. See
http://www.sleepmonsters.co.uk/racereport.php?page_action=rep&race_id=6846&article_id=5437
I particularly like the wrap...
"When the BBC interviewed OMM Director Mike Parsons it was as though
they were speaking two different languages. The presenter became more
and more confused as each question was met by an unexpected answer,
until she eventually asked; “You mean there was no emergency here?”
Mike’s answer was, “No, not really.”
Even now the BBC is sticking to its angle, while clearly making a hasty
retreat and hoping it all goes away.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/cumbria/7692727.stm

Chris
Bernard
2008-10-27 14:22:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter Clinch
The report on Sleepmonsters seems a bit more clueful. See
http://www.sleepmonsters.co.uk/racereport.php?page_action=rep&race_id=6846&article_id=5437
I particularly like the wrap...
"When the BBC interviewed OMM Director Mike Parsons it was as though
they were speaking two different languages. The presenter became more
and more confused as each question was met by an unexpected answer,
until she eventually asked; “You mean there was no emergency here?”
Mike’s answer was, “No, not really.”
Pete.
Here you can hear Mike Parsons on today's You and Yours on R4. It's about
40 minutes in.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00f31j7/You_and_Yours_27102008/
Chris S
2008-10-27 19:02:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter Clinch
The report on Sleepmonsters seems a bit more clueful. See
http://www.sleepmonsters.co.uk/racereport.php?page_action=rep&race_id=6846&article_id=5437
I particularly like the wrap...
"When the BBC interviewed OMM Director Mike Parsons it was as though
they were speaking two different languages. The presenter became more
and more confused as each question was met by an unexpected answer,
until she eventually asked; “You mean there was no emergency here?”
Mike’s answer was, “No, not really.”
Which asks the question, why was it called off, what changed?
Why was the MRT called in?
If those taking part were well equipped as the organisers say why did they
have to take shelter where they could in farms and at Honister?
Simon Challands
2008-10-27 22:45:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Chris S
Post by Peter Clinch
The report on Sleepmonsters seems a bit more clueful. See
http://www.sleepmonsters.co.uk/racereport.php?page_action=rep&race_id=
6846&article_id=5437
I particularly like the wrap...
"When the BBC interviewed OMM Director Mike Parsons it was as though
they were speaking two different languages. The presenter became more
and more confused as each question was met by an unexpected answer,
until she eventually asked; ”You mean there was no emergency here?•
Mike‘s answer was, ”No, not really.•
Which asks the question, why was it called off, what changed?
Turned out that there wasn't any point in continuing after all, when
too many people abandoned it. It made sense to get started and see if
enough people would manage to cope with the conditions. The
competitors should be competent enough to make their own decisions
about whether or not to continue.
Post by Chris S
Why was the MRT called in?
Because lots of them were there already taking part, or someone else
blew up a big fuss? A very small number got into any actual
difficulty, as opposed to just getting cold, wet, and probably
miserable, and fed up with the thing.
Post by Chris S
If those taking part were well equipped as the organisers say why did they
have to take shelter where they could in farms and at Honister?
Given then choice, would you go somewhere warm and dry or stay outside
in bad weather? Almost all of them didn't *have* to take shelter. I'm
sure they'd have been fine without it.
--
Simon Challands
Chris S.
2008-10-28 12:33:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Simon Challands
Post by Chris S
Post by Peter Clinch
The report on Sleepmonsters seems a bit more clueful. See
http://www.sleepmonsters.co.uk/racereport.php?page_action=rep&race_id=
6846&article_id=5437
I particularly like the wrap...
"When the BBC interviewed OMM Director Mike Parsons it was as though
they were speaking two different languages. The presenter became more
and more confused as each question was met by an unexpected answer,
until she eventually asked; "You mean there was no emergency here?.
Mike's answer was, "No, not really..
Which asks the question, why was it called off, what changed?
Turned out that there wasn't any point in continuing after all, when
too many people abandoned it. It made sense to get started and see if
enough people would manage to cope with the conditions. The
competitors should be competent enough to make their own decisions
about whether or not to continue.
So what your saying we have an alledged organised event, that takes money
from each of the participents, takes complete disregard of teh severe
weather forcasts, police advice and advice of the MRT and then gives no
guidlines but leaves it up to those taking part as to wether itis safe or
not to carry on.remind me, how much did the participents pay and what for?
Post by Simon Challands
Post by Chris S
Why was the MRT called in?
Because lots of them were there already taking part, or someone else
blew up a big fuss?
You mean the organisers?
Post by Simon Challands
Post by Chris S
If those taking part were well equipped as the organisers say why did they
have to take shelter where they could in farms and at Honister?
Given then choice, would you go somewhere warm and dry or stay outside
in bad weather?
Your missing the point, the organisers claim was that they allowed it to go
ahead under these conditions as the people taking part are experienced fell
walkers and they make sure they carry the correct equipment for the
conditions. Well that plainly wasn't true as a large number had to abandon
it.
And why abandon it, the conditions didn't worsen from the start, it had been
forcast, if it was a case of well, lets see how it goes, that is really a
shocking policy for an organisation such as that.
Post by Simon Challands
Almost all of them didn't *have* to take shelter. I'm
sure they'd have been fine without it.
It was so disorganised they don't know how many did or needed shelter.
Peter Clinch
2008-10-28 13:30:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Chris S.
So what your saying we have an alledged organised event, that takes
money from each of the participents, takes complete disregard of teh
severe weather forcasts, police advice and advice of the MRT and then
gives no guidlines but leaves it up to those taking part as to wether
itis safe or not to carry on.remind me, how much did the participents
pay and what for?
What?

The point of the organisation is not to nurse-maid people, but to
provide a competitive framework for a bloody hard challenge.

I suggest you read
http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/general/others/the-extreme-world-of-mountain-marathons-975372.html
and get a bit more of an idea of what it's about.
Post by Chris S.
Your missing the point, the organisers claim was that they allowed it to
go ahead under these conditions as the people taking part are
experienced fell walkers and they make sure they carry the correct
equipment for the conditions. Well that plainly wasn't true as a large
number had to abandon it.
They abandoned doing a full course. To put it into perspective, an
Elite MM course is roughly equivalent to running two marathons and
climbing Mont Blanc over a weekend, carrying your own kit. Even the
"easy" course is a tough weekend. In the '98 event ~70% of the entry
dropped out as the conditions were so tough, so it's perfectly normal
for people to abandon. My KIMM record is started 4, finished 2. I
didn't need rescuing on either of my "failures", and was never "missing".
Post by Chris S.
And why abandon it, the conditions didn't worsen from the start, it had
been forcast, if it was a case of well, lets see how it goes, that is
really a shocking policy for an organisation such as that.
Because the midway camps became untenable, AIUI.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net ***@dundee.ac.uk http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/
Chris S.
2008-10-28 13:41:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter Clinch
Post by Chris S.
So what your saying we have an alledged organised event, that takes
money from each of the participents, takes complete disregard of teh
severe weather forcasts, police advice and advice of the MRT and then
gives no guidlines but leaves it up to those taking part as to wether
itis safe or not to carry on.remind me, how much did the participents
pay and what for?
What?
The point of the organisation is not to nurse-maid people, but to
provide a competitive framework for a bloody hard challenge.
When does a hard challeng become reckless?
When you ignore weather warnings?
Ignore the Police?
Ignore MRT?
Post by Peter Clinch
I suggest you read
http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/general/others/the-extreme-world-of-mountain-marathons-975372.html
and get a bit more of an idea of what it's about.
Tend not to get info from rags, too much bias, much better from varous
walking sites and forums.
Especially the events own forums where people were asking if it wa sbeing
called off due to the conditions.
Post by Peter Clinch
Post by Chris S.
Your missing the point, the organisers claim was that they allowed it to
go ahead under these conditions as the people taking part are
experienced fell walkers and they make sure they carry the correct
equipment for the conditions. Well that plainly wasn't true as a large
number had to abandon it.
They abandoned doing a full course.
Not disputed, why was it abandoned and what changed?
It wasn't the weather was it.
Post by Peter Clinch
Post by Chris S.
And why abandon it, the conditions didn't worsen from the start, it had
been forcast, if it was a case of well, lets see how it goes, that is
really a shocking policy for an organisation such as that.
Because the midway camps became untenable, AIUI.
And, given the warnings, that "never" occurred to the organisers?
Fellwalker
2008-10-28 13:45:35 UTC
Permalink
Following up to Chris S.
Post by Chris S.
Post by Peter Clinch
They abandoned doing a full course.
Not disputed, why was it abandoned and what changed?
It wasn't the weather was it.
I think you are losing sight of the basic facts. This was a mountain
marathon which relishes bad conditions. When it had to be abandoned because
things were *too* bad the media annuonced tohusands were lost and might
die, that was bolox. You can nitpick this and that with 20/20 hindsight but
as casualties were near zero its obvious who was right in principal.
--
Fellwalker M
Remove boots to email (google killed to avoid spam, known posters
whitelisted)
Chris Gilbert
2008-10-28 13:56:28 UTC
Permalink
This abandonment business is a bit misleading. It was
abandoned because it became unadministerable. A meaningful
competetive result was unattaineable and the 'race' component,
therefore was pointless. It wasn't abandoned to save lives.

Chris
--
Photography by Chris Gilbert
www.ravenseyegallery.co.uk
Affordable web sites
www.sitegateway.net
Peter Clinch
2008-10-28 14:36:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by Chris S.
When does a hard challeng become reckless?
When you ignore weather warnings?
Ignore the Police?
Ignore MRT?
When people get killed, I guess. Oh look, nobody did...
Post by Chris S.
Post by Peter Clinch
I suggest you read
http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/general/others/the-extreme-world-of-mountain-marathons-975372.html
and get a bit more of an idea of what it's about.
Tend not to get info from rags, too much bias, much better from varous
walking sites and forums.
Especially the events own forums where people were asking if it wa
sbeing called off due to the conditions.
The traffic on the Sleepmonsters forum seems to be highly loaded towards
folk who don't appear to agree with you.

If you don't like my link to the Indy above, maybe you'll prefer the one
on Outdoors Magic: http://www.outdoorsmagic.com/news/article/mps/uan/5646
Post by Chris S.
Not disputed, why was it abandoned and what changed?
It wasn't the weather was it.
No, it was the ability to use the midway camps AIUI.
Post by Chris S.
And, given the warnings, that "never" occurred to the organisers?
Quite possibly not. Was there a full prediction of the exact degree of
flodding that could be expected, including the campsite locations?

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net ***@dundee.ac.uk http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/
Peter Clinch
2008-10-28 08:16:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Chris S
Which asks the question, why was it called off, what changed?
AIUI the conditions at the midway camps were becoming untenable to start
the second day.
Post by Chris S
Why was the MRT called in?
Precautionary, for the most part, I'd guess. If you look further into
the weekend's happenings the really tricky rescue MRT had to pull off
over the weekend in the Lakes was someone who was nothing to do with the
OMM...
Post by Chris S
If those taking part were well equipped as the organisers say why did
they have to take shelter where they could in farms and at Honister?
In part because they were stopped from leaving. From the accounts on
Sleepmonsters:

"As I spoke to Graham race organiser Jen Longbottom walked passed and
heard the comment about their being stopped at Honister. “It would have
been better they’d let them come here,” she said. Clearly she felt that
the competitors had been stopped from returning to HQ where they could
be accounted for and looked after - even if they did have wade deep
water to get there. (Teams were stopped on the pass first by the owner
of the Honister Slate Mine, and later by the Police.)"

Beyond that, if you're abandoning the race and need to take shelter and
there's a building handy, do you maybe try that first, rather than pitch
a tent in a gale and deluge? One of my club0mates in Tayside Orienteers
spent the night at a Youth Hostel drinking G&Ts: he didn't /have/ to do
that, but it seemed like a sensible option...

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net ***@dundee.ac.uk http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/
Roger
2008-10-28 09:05:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter Clinch
“
What character set are you using now Pete?

I don't know how others see it but to me the group above consists of:
a with a circumflex
pound sign
solid vertical bar

The "“" above was taken from the paragraph below (where it appears 3
times) which is quoted as well to give the context. I have no comment
about the content but can't work out what it is I should actually be
seeing.
Post by Peter Clinch
"As I spoke to Graham race organiser Jen Longbottom walked passed and
heard the comment about their being stopped at Honister. “It would have
been better they’d let them come here,” she said. Clearly she felt that
the competitors had been stopped from returning to HQ where they could
be accounted for and looked after - even if they did have wade deep
water to get there. (Teams were stopped on the pass first by the owner
of the Honister Slate Mine, and later by the Police.)"
--
Roger Chapman
Nearest Marilyn still to be visited - Great Orme.
89 miles as the crow flies,
considerably more as the walker drives.
Peter Clinch
2008-10-28 09:27:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Roger
What character set are you using now Pete?
Dunno, whatever came via cut and paste from Sleepmonsters. I think you
can take them as apostophes or quotes.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net ***@dundee.ac.uk http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/
Paul Saunders
2008-10-28 12:12:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Roger
Post by Peter Clinch
“
What character set are you using now Pete?
a with a circumflex
pound sign
solid vertical bar
The "“" above was taken from the paragraph below (where it appears 3
times) which is quoted as well to give the context. I have no comment
about the content but can't work out what it is I should actually be
seeing.
Post by Peter Clinch
"As I spoke to Graham race organiser Jen Longbottom walked passed and
heard the comment about their being stopped at Honister. “It would
have been better they’d let them come here,” she said.
"As I spoke to Graham race organiser Jen Longbottom walked passed and
heard the comment about their being stopped at Honister. “It would
have been better they’d let them come here,” she said.
Copied and pasted direct from Peter's post:

"As I spoke to Graham race organiser Jen Longbottom walked passed and
heard the comment about their being stopped at Honister. “It would have
been better they’d let them come here,” she said.

Paul
--
http://www.wilderness-wales.co.uk
http://www.wilderness-images.co.uk
http://www.uk-rec-walking.co.uk
Chris S.
2008-10-28 12:51:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter Clinch
Post by Chris S
Which asks the question, why was it called off, what changed?
AIUI the conditions at the midway camps were becoming untenable to start
the second day.
The met office had been giving out weather warnings all week.
Even the organisers own forums had posts about the weatehr before it had
started asking if it was being called off.
So at least someone knew even if the event team didn't
Post by Peter Clinch
Post by Chris S
Why was the MRT called in?
Precautionary, for the most part, I'd guess.
Come on, you don't call the police, MRT and search helicopters out as a
precaution.
What do you do, ring up and say, well,I think we may have some people lost,
don't know how many, don't know where, don't know of an injuries?
But can you come and look as we haven't a clue where the are?

If that was a small group of peole requesting that they would get ruined for
being unprpared, not taking into account of the condition and risking other
peoples lifes.
Post by Peter Clinch
If you look further into
the weekend's happenings the really tricky rescue MRT had to pull off
over the weekend in the Lakes was someone who was nothing to do with the
OMM...
I saw that, tricky in what way?
Post by Peter Clinch
Post by Chris S
If those taking part were well equipped as the organisers say why did
they have to take shelter where they could in farms and at Honister?
In part because they were stopped from leaving. From the accounts on
"As I spoke to Graham race organiser Jen Longbottom walked passed and
heard the comment about their being stopped at Honister. “It would have
been better they’d let them come here,” she said. Clearly she felt that
the competitors had been stopped from returning to HQ where they could
be accounted for and looked after - even if they did have wade deep
water to get there. (Teams were stopped on the pass first by the owner
of the Honister Slate Mine, and later by the Police.)"
So what the organisers wanted was to ignore police advice again.
Really laughable.
Post by Peter Clinch
Beyond that, if you're abandoning the race and need to take shelter and
there's a building handy, do you maybe try that first, rather than pitch
a tent in a gale and deluge?
That's my point, there was a severe weather forcast for this, it had put a
months rain down in a day, nothing had changed weather wise from when they
started that days events. The organisers *claimed* the paticipnets had the
correct equipment and skills to deal with the conditions, taht plainly was
wrong.
They made a bad decsion, events proved they got it wrong.
Post by Peter Clinch
One of my club0mates in Tayside Orienteers
spent the night at a Youth Hostel drinking G&Ts: he didn't /have/ to do
that, but it seemed like a sensible option...
Why, if the conditions weren't as bad as the media were making out?
Peter Clinch
2008-10-28 13:36:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by Chris S.
The met office had been giving out weather warnings all week.
The KIMM/OMM is no stranger to severe weather.
Post by Chris S.
Come on, you don't call the police, MRT and search helicopters out as a
precaution.
Well, actually that's /exactly/ why you call them in.
Post by Chris S.
I saw that, tricky in what way?
Needing white-water rescue gear to pull someone off a hillside is fairly
exceptional...
Post by Chris S.
So what the organisers wanted was to ignore police advice again.
Really laughable.
The police don't have a monopoly on good advice. What they also don't
have is much experience in dealing with happenings on the OMM, as
opposed to 40 years experience from the people who run it.
Post by Chris S.
That's my point, there was a severe weather forcast for this, it had put
a months rain down in a day, nothing had changed weather wise from when
they started that days events. The organisers *claimed* the paticipnets
had the correct equipment and skills to deal with the conditions, taht
plainly was wrong.
No it wasn't. You have come up with nothing to show that they were
inadequately prepared. The mark of that is not coming back, not
deciding to turn back and doing so quite safely.
Post by Chris S.
Why, if the conditions weren't as bad as the media were making out?
If you can't understand that a hostel with a bar is a nicer place to
spend the night than a small tent in a gale then you really have
forgotten to turn your brain on.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net ***@dundee.ac.uk http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/
Paul Saunders
2008-10-28 13:45:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter Clinch
Post by Chris S.
Why, if the conditions weren't as bad as the media were making out?
If you can't understand that a hostel with a bar is a nicer place to
spend the night than a small tent in a gale then you really have
forgotten to turn your brain on.
Indeed. As you know I recently cut short a wild camping trip due to gale
force winds. My life was never in danger, I just got fed up with the noise.
I figured it would simply be nicer to be back home.

Paul
--
http://www.wilderness-wales.co.uk
http://www.wilderness-images.co.uk
http://www.uk-rec-walking.co.uk
Fellwalker
2008-10-28 13:47:46 UTC
Permalink
Following up to Paul Saunders
Post by Paul Saunders
Post by Peter Clinch
If you can't understand that a hostel with a bar is a nicer place to
spend the night than a small tent in a gale then you really have
forgotten to turn your brain on.
Indeed. As you know I recently cut short a wild camping trip due to gale
force winds. My life was never in danger,
I came down early once because i had forgotten the cutlery. Its amazing how
nice a pint or three and a chilli jacket potato with knife and fork can be
after eating like a dog.
--
Fellwalker M
Remove boots to email (google killed to avoid spam, known posters
whitelisted)
Fellwalker
2008-10-28 09:00:55 UTC
Permalink
Following up to Chris S
Post by Chris S
Which asks the question, why was it called off, what changed?
the roads were flooded, so they stopped, thats doesnt have to be an
emergency or disaster
Post by Chris S
Why was the MRT called in?
precaution and already there.
Post by Chris S
If those taking part were well equipped as the organisers say why did they
have to take shelter where they could in farms and at Honister?
they didnt *have to* but why camp in a field when they could wait out the
flood water indoors?
--
Fellwalker M
Remove boots to email (google killed to avoid spam, known posters
whitelisted)
Chris S.
2008-10-28 12:58:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Fellwalker
Following up to Chris S
Post by Chris S
Which asks the question, why was it called off, what changed?
the roads were flooded, so they stopped, thats doesnt have to be an
emergency or disaster
It was already flooding in that area, the police had told them but they
ignored it and on teh orginsers forum there were posts already about the
flooding.
So it was well known before.
Post by Fellwalker
Post by Chris S
Why was the MRT called in?
precaution and already there.
Including the helicopter that had flew in from Anglessey, no doubt.
According to Keswick MRT , they weren't already there.
Post by Fellwalker
Post by Chris S
If those taking part were well equipped as the organisers say why did they
have to take shelter where they could in farms and at Honister?
they didnt *have to* but why camp in a field when they could wait out the
flood water indoors?
In that case why start the event when they had been warned of teh conditions
and nothing from a weatehr point had changed from the start of that days
events.
It was bad when it started, it didn't get any worse, yet it was later called
off. Surely they do realise taht when it rains on the fells the water has to
go somewhere?
It's just supporting the postion that the organisers didn't seem to care.
Post by Fellwalker
--
Fellwalker M
Remove boots to email (google killed to avoid spam, known posters
whitelisted)
Roger
2008-10-28 14:02:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Chris S.
Post by Fellwalker
they didnt *have to* but why camp in a field when they could wait out the
flood water indoors?
In that case why start the event when they had been warned of teh conditions
and nothing from a weatehr point had changed from the start of that days
events.
You sure about that? I drove down to South Wales on Friday and I don't
recall so much as a single severe weather warning on the radio and,
given that the Met Office tends to issue a severe weather warning every
time someone farts a bit too loudly these days, the airwaves should have
really been filled to the brim with prophesies of total doom if they
were predicting a real extreme weather event.
Post by Chris S.
It was bad when it started, it didn't get any worse, yet it was later called
off. Surely they do realise taht when it rains on the fells the water has to
go somewhere?
It's just supporting the postion that the organisers didn't seem to care.
The article in the Independent cited earlier has it that nearly a months
worth of rain fell in a single day. Now that sort of thing doesn't
happen every month or even every decade so was it predicted? If it
wasn't then the police advice to cancel (which may never had been given
anyway) wasn't worth the paper it wasn't written on.

It is about time that the Met Office stopped crying wolf every time
conditions are less than ideal and reserved severe weather warnings for
real severe weather.
--
Roger Chapman
Nearest Marilyn still to be visited - Great Orme.
89 miles as the crow flies,
considerably more as the walker drives.
Dominic Sexton
2008-10-28 14:18:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Chris S.
It was already flooding in that area, the police had told them but they
ignored it and on teh orginsers forum there were posts already about the
flooding.
So it was well known before.
There was some flooding on Thursday which subsided quickly - as tends to
happen in hilly areas. Heavy rain was forecast. The actual rainfall was
greater than that forecast. The subsequent flooding was exceptional.
Post by Chris S.
Post by Fellwalker
Post by Chris S
Why was the MRT called in?
precaution and already there.
Including the helicopter that had flew in from Anglessey, no doubt.
According to Keswick MRT , they weren't already there.
The media made much of the helicopter being used to search for three
missing people. However, despite news reports to the contrary, they were
nothing to do with the event. They were eventually located and resuced
by Kendal MRT.

Sadly in this age of 24 hour 'news' the media organisations seem more
interested in getting a scoop than checking the facts. In reality the
flooding itself was more news than the 2500 soggy competitiors in a race
that was abandoned.
Post by Chris S.
Post by Fellwalker
Post by Chris S
If those taking part were well equipped as the organisers say why did they
have to take shelter where they could in farms and at Honister?
they didnt *have to* but why camp in a field when they could wait out the
flood water indoors?
In that case why start the event when they had been warned of teh
conditions and nothing from a weatehr point had changed from the start
of that days events.
The rainfall was greater than that forecast. The consequences of
exceptional flooding are notoriously difficult to predict.
Post by Chris S.
It was bad when it started,
Heavy rain was forecast however it wasn't raining when they started. Bad
weather courses were planned and were used.

it didn't get any worse, yet it was later
Post by Chris S.
called off.
It was not called off because of the weather directly or even because of
the 'danger' to the participants out on the fells from the weather. It
was called off because of the logistal problems at the overnight camp
and race HQ caused by the flooding and high winds.
--
Dominic
Chris Game
2008-10-28 14:21:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Fellwalker
they didnt *have to* but why camp in a field when they could wait
out the flood water indoors?
Why go out in a howling gale when you can stay indoors?
--
Chris Game

The generation of random numbers is too important to be left
to chance. -Robert R. Coveyou Oak Ridge National Laboratory
Fellwalker
2008-10-27 10:58:40 UTC
Permalink
Following up to Peter Clinch
Post by Peter Clinch
eard on the news yesterday that the bill to the taxpayer could run as
high as "several thousand pounds"!
I wonder how much policing the FA cup costs?
or when things grind to a halt here in London should we get a bit of
weather (not that I think we should be over equipped for things that dont
happen).
--
Fellwalker M
Remove boots to email (google killed to avoid spam, known posters
whitelisted)
Kate XXXXXX
2008-10-27 12:15:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter Clinch
Post by Fellwalker
Following up to Chris Game
Post by Chris Game
Costs incurred by various premises that opened their doors to feed
and shelter hikers who were clearly in trouble
"in trouble" or unable to reach their transport because of flood water? I
know a few were trapped by flood water, as were other people and there were
a dozen or so mild hypothermia cases. Was there much more?
I heard on the news yesterday that the bill to the taxpayer could run as
high as "several thousand pounds"!
I wonder how much policing the FA cup costs?
Pete.
Millions per game. Little Sis (inspector with the Met) has an
occasional rant about it eating into the budget for things like
forensics for murder iand the like (she's CID these days).
--
Kate XXXXXX R.C.T.Q Madame Chef des Trolls
Lady Catherine, Wardrobe Mistress of the Chocolate Buttons
http://www.katedicey.co.uk
Click on Kate's Pages and explore!
limestone-cowboy
2008-10-27 18:58:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sean
Post by Chris Game
Let's hope the organisers are suitably insured to pay for these
various costs!
You're trolling right? What costs?
Mountain Rescue is a charity that you may or may not choose to support, and
the RAF write these kind of missions off as search/rescue training. (And
very good training they are too - if they weren't taking part in this kind
of thing they'd have to simulate it anyway.)
It would be interesting to note how many of the participants are also
members of the mountain and fell rescue teams around the country. How
many are members of the emergency services, doctors, nurses or perhaps
members or ex members of the armed forces. The participants were all
equipped to cope with British mountain weather which can become arctic
in nature in a very short space of time (and for a short space of time).
Reading MRT log books can be very revealing about just who they rescue,
generally it is people taking short walks, slipping or falling within a
few hundred yards of the car parks, not the type of people to take part
in mountain marathons.
Phil Cook
2008-10-26 15:02:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Chris Game
Post by Bernard
An RAF helicopter is helping in the search for three athletes
still unaccounted for after high winds and flooding in the Lake
District.
Let's hope the organisers are suitably insured to pay for these
various costs! Unfortunately, given recent forecasts of severe
weather, they won't be able to claim these conditions were
unexpected.
The RAF helicopter and it's crew is paid fo from the defence budget..
They have to be there, indeed they have to train for their principal
role of rescuing airmen, whether there are walkers in trouble or not.

Civilian MRT are volunteers and funded by donations. They all wish to
remain as they are and not change to funding by insurance.

The overwhelming majority of the participants did not need rescuing
they were prepared for poor weather. The rules require them to carry a
tent and a sleeping bag, food and means to cook it.
--
Phil Cook looking north over the park to the "Westminster Gasworks"
Sean
2008-10-26 14:37:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bernard
As of now 13:47 there are only 3 unaccounted for according tp the BBC here
According to this:
http://www.sleepmonsters.co.uk/racereport.php?race_id=6846

There were actually only 44 pairs unaccounted for while the mainstream media
were still reporting thousands missing. No surprise really.
Paul Saunders
2008-10-26 15:56:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bernard
"An RAF helicopter is helping in the search for three athletes still
unaccounted for after high winds and flooding in the Lake District.
About 2,500 runners were taking part in the two-day Original Mountain
Marathon near Keswick in Cumbria before it was called off on Saturday.
Even if they were all well-equipped and able to deal with the conditions,
with so many people involved there's bound to be a statistical risk that a
few might get into trouble.

Paul
--
http://www.wilderness-wales.co.uk
http://www.wilderness-images.co.uk
http://www.uk-rec-walking.co.uk
Simon Challands
2008-10-26 17:16:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bernard
As of now 13:47 there are only 3 unaccounted for according tp the BBC here
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/cumbria/7691531.stm
"An RAF helicopter is helping in the search for three athletes still
unaccounted for after high winds and flooding in the Lake District.
About 2,500 runners were taking part in the two-day Original Mountain
Marathon near Keswick in Cumbria before it was called off on Saturday.
Many sheltered in farms and mines overnight and about 1,700 camped out. "
I don't think anyone sheltered *in* a mine. Quite a lot turned up at
Honister, but I got the distinct impression that Honister had no
intention of letting them stay the night and shoved them off down to
Gatesgarth (that's what happened to my brother, anyway, albeit in, I
think, a minibus, not just shoved out of the door).
--
Simon Challands
robert
2008-10-26 21:08:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Simon Challands
Post by Bernard
As of now 13:47 there are only 3 unaccounted for according tp the BBC here
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/cumbria/7691531.stm
"An RAF helicopter is helping in the search for three athletes still
unaccounted for after high winds and flooding in the Lake District.
About 2,500 runners were taking part in the two-day Original Mountain
Marathon near Keswick in Cumbria before it was called off on Saturday.
Many sheltered in farms and mines overnight and about 1,700 camped out. "
I don't think anyone sheltered *in* a mine. Quite a lot turned up at
Honister, but I got the distinct impression that Honister had no
intention of letting them stay the night and shoved them off down to
Gatesgarth (that's what happened to my brother, anyway, albeit in, I
think, a minibus, not just shoved out of the door).
A major problem was the flooded and closed roads in the area -
effectively cutting off Borrowdale, Buttermere etc . So a large number
of competitors couldnt get back to their cars or get their cars out of
the area - thus the headlines about stranded runners.
Ben
2008-10-26 16:26:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Fellwalker
Following up to PeterC
Post by PeterC
Looks as if there might have been a drop of rain in the ELD.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/cumbria/7691020.stm
woke up to radio saying 1000 fell runners lost on hills, some bloke at the
slate mine saying it should all be stopped and someone must be blamed. What
is the problem? Hopefully I wont be proved wrong in saying those sort of
people will cope, its just hard to *know* if they are safe and accounted
for.
The kind of people who take part in these mountain marathons will not only
be well prepared for poor weather, and able to camp out if necessary (though
that eventuality is unlikely - more likely just to have to shelter at some
farm), they are also the type of people who would help each other out if
necessary without a second thought.

Yes, it's probably newsworthy, yes, it was right to mobilise all the local
mountain rescue teams (they'd have been on standby anyway with an event like
that under way), but no, it's not a great disaster.
Bernard
2008-10-26 16:31:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ben
Post by Fellwalker
Following up to PeterC
Post by PeterC
Looks as if there might have been a drop of rain in the ELD.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/cumbria/7691020.stm
woke up to radio saying 1000 fell runners lost on hills, some bloke at the
slate mine saying it should all be stopped and someone must be blamed. What
is the problem? Hopefully I wont be proved wrong in saying those sort of
people will cope, its just hard to *know* if they are safe and accounted
for.
The kind of people who take part in these mountain marathons will not only
be well prepared for poor weather, and able to camp out if necessary
(though that eventuality is unlikely - more likely just to have to shelter
at some farm), they are also the type of people who would help each other
out if necessary without a second thought.
Yes, it's probably newsworthy, yes, it was right to mobilise all the local
mountain rescue teams (they'd have been on standby anyway with an event
like that under way), but no, it's not a great disaster.
There are some good comments at the following link from some taking part

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/cumbria/7691338.stm
Roos Eisma
2008-10-26 17:27:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ben
The kind of people who take part in these mountain marathons will not only
be well prepared for poor weather, and able to camp out if necessary (though
that eventuality is unlikely - more likely just to have to shelter at some
farm), they are also the type of people who would help each other out if
necessary without a second thought.
The competitors do not just carry a tent etc in case of emergency, a
midway camp is part of the plan. It normally is in a boggy field, but for
the rest there is no shelter. So camping out in the hills is not that
different from what they intended to do anyway.


Roos
Bernard
2008-10-26 16:43:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by PeterC
Looks as if there might have been a drop of rain in the ELD.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/cumbria/7691020.stm
--
Peter.
You don't understand Newton's Third Law of Motion?
It's not rocket science, you know.
According to the Washington Times the mountains in the Lake District go up
to 7.054 feet high !!

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2008/oct/26/british-mountain-race-runners-all-accounted-for-1/
Duncan Gray
2008-10-26 21:06:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bernard
Post by PeterC
Looks as if there might have been a drop of rain in the ELD.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/cumbria/7691020.stm
--
Peter.
You don't understand Newton's Third Law of Motion?
It's not rocket science, you know.
According to the Washington Times the mountains in the Lake District go up
to 7.054 feet high !!
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2008/oct/26/british-mountain-race-runners-all-accounted-for-1/
Perhaps that's part of a new safety procedure, tell American pilots that
British mountains are twice as high as they think. That way the USAF might
manage to miss the top of Ben MacDui in future.
PeterC
2008-10-26 22:15:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Duncan Gray
Post by Bernard
Post by PeterC
Looks as if there might have been a drop of rain in the ELD.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/cumbria/7691020.stm
--
Peter.
You don't understand Newton's Third Law of Motion?
It's not rocket science, you know.
According to the Washington Times the mountains in the Lake District go up
to 7.054 feet high !!
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2008/oct/26/british-mountain-race-runners-all-accounted-for-1/
Perhaps that's part of a new safety procedure, tell American pilots that
British mountains are twice as high as they think. That way the USAF might
manage to miss the top of Ben MacDui in future.
They're good at missing the enemy.
--
Peter.
You don't understand Newton's Third Law of Motion?
It's not rocket science, you know.
PeterC
2008-10-26 22:16:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bernard
Post by PeterC
Looks as if there might have been a drop of rain in the ELD.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/cumbria/7691020.stm
--
Peter.
You don't understand Newton's Third Law of Motion?
It's not rocket science, you know.
According to the Washington Times the mountains in the Lake District go up
to 7.054 feet high !!
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2008/oct/26/british-mountain-race-runners-all-accounted-for-1/
We wish!
--
Peter.
You don't understand Newton's Third Law of Motion?
It's not rocket science, you know.
Peter Clinch
2008-10-27 08:13:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bernard
According to the Washington Times the mountains in the Lake District go
up to 7.054 feet high !!
That's a bit of a howler, but otherwise the reporting showed a rather
higher clue per minute rate than most of our own news organisations...

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net ***@dundee.ac.uk http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/
Jhimmy
2008-10-27 11:34:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bernard
Post by PeterC
Looks as if there might have been a drop of rain in the ELD.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/cumbria/7691020.stm
--
Peter.
You don't understand Newton's Third Law of Motion?
It's not rocket science, you know.
According to the Washington Times the mountains in the Lake District go up
to 7.054 feet high !!
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2008/oct/26/british-mountain-race-runners-all-accounted-for-1/
Arhg! Not another list! I've now gotta do a 7000 er....anyone know any
more 7000ft peaks in the Lakes?


Jhimmy
PeterC
2008-10-27 11:49:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jhimmy
Post by Bernard
Post by PeterC
Looks as if there might have been a drop of rain in the ELD.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/cumbria/7691020.stm
--
Peter.
You don't understand Newton's Third Law of Motion?
It's not rocket science, you know.
According to the Washington Times the mountains in the Lake District go up
to 7.054 feet high !!
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2008/oct/26/british-mountain-race-runners-all-accounted-for-1/
Arhg! Not another list! I've now gotta do a 7000 er....anyone know any
more 7000ft peaks in the Lakes?
Jhimmy
Hills or mountains?
--
Peter.
You don't understand Newton's Third Law of Motion?
It's not rocket science, you know.
Paul Saunders
2008-10-27 12:04:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by PeterC
Post by Jhimmy
Arhg! Not another list! I've now gotta do a 7000 er....anyone know
any more 7000ft peaks in the Lakes?
Hills or mountains?
Washingtons?

Paul
--
http://www.wilderness-wales.co.uk
http://www.wilderness-images.co.uk
http://www.uk-rec-walking.co.uk
The Nomad
2008-10-27 11:53:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jhimmy
Post by Bernard
Post by PeterC
Looks as if there might have been a drop of rain in the ELD.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/cumbria/7691020.stm --
Peter.
You don't understand Newton's Third Law of Motion? It's not rocket
science, you know.
According to the Washington Times the mountains in the Lake District go
up to 7.054 feet high !!
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2008/oct/26/british-mountain-race-
runners-all-accounted-for-1/
Post by Jhimmy
Arhg! Not another list! I've now gotta do a 7000 er....anyone know any
more 7000ft peaks in the Lakes?
Jhimmy
However as written they are less than 7' 2/3" tall!

Even I can manage that, these days ;-)

Nomad
Paul Saunders
2008-10-27 12:05:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by The Nomad
Post by Bernard
According to the Washington Times the mountains in the Lake
District go up to 7.054 feet high !!
However as written they are less than 7' 2/3" tall!
Not if you're German.

Paul
--
http://www.wilderness-wales.co.uk
http://www.wilderness-images.co.uk
http://www.uk-rec-walking.co.uk
Kate XXXXXX
2008-10-27 12:27:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bernard
Post by Jhimmy
Post by Bernard
Post by PeterC
Looks as if there might have been a drop of rain in the ELD.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/cumbria/7691020.stm --
Peter.
You don't understand Newton's Third Law of Motion? It's not rocket
science, you know.
According to the Washington Times the mountains in the Lake District go
up to 7.054 feet high !!
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2008/oct/26/british-mountain-race-
runners-all-accounted-for-1/
Post by Jhimmy
Arhg! Not another list! I've now gotta do a 7000 er....anyone know any
more 7000ft peaks in the Lakes?
Jhimmy
However as written they are less than 7' 2/3" tall!
Even I can manage that, these days ;-)
Me too... Prolly in me high heeled sandals!
--
Kate XXXXXX R.C.T.Q Madame Chef des Trolls
Lady Catherine, Wardrobe Mistress of the Chocolate Buttons
http://www.katedicey.co.uk
Click on Kate's Pages and explore!
Fellwalker
2008-10-27 08:45:14 UTC
Permalink
Following up to PeterC
Post by PeterC
Looks as if there might have been a drop of rain in the ELD.
I see that Weir bloke is getting quoted in the nationals today, saying it
came within inches of the ELD being a morgue. Sounds like hes a bit
clueless but thinks hes an expert because he has a theme park in the
mountains, or whatever.
The FT report also quoted someone actually involved as saying his comments
were unhelpful
--
Fellwalker M
Remove boots to email (google killed to avoid spam, known posters
whitelisted)
Peter Clinch
2008-10-27 08:46:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Fellwalker
I see that Weir bloke is getting quoted in the nationals today, saying it
came within inches of the ELD being a morgue. Sounds like hes a bit
clueless but thinks hes an expert because he has a theme park in the
mountains, or whatever.
The FT report also quoted someone actually involved as saying his comments
were unhelpful
That's a very polite way of saying "utter bollocks"...

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net ***@dundee.ac.uk http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/
Fellwalker
2008-10-27 08:49:27 UTC
Permalink
Following up to Peter Clinch
Post by Peter Clinch
That's a very polite way of saying "utter bollocks"...
I just sent Weir an email at his theme park asking if he really thought
everyone nearly died, do you think will get an answer?
"www.honister-slate-mine.co.uk"
--
Fellwalker M
Remove boots to email (google killed to avoid spam, known posters
whitelisted)
Fellwalker
2008-10-27 09:08:55 UTC
Permalink
Following up to Fellwalker
Post by Fellwalker
I just sent Weir an email at his theme park asking if he really thought
everyone nearly died, do you think will get an answer?
"www.honister-slate-mine.co.uk"
its 10 past nine now and still no reply :-)
--
Fellwalker M
Remove boots to email (google killed to avoid spam, known posters
whitelisted)
Simon Challands
2008-10-27 22:37:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Fellwalker
Following up to Peter Clinch
Post by Peter Clinch
That's a very polite way of saying "utter bollocks"...
I just sent Weir an email at his theme park asking if he really thought
everyone nearly died, do you think will get an answer?
"www.honister-slate-mine.co.uk"
To be fair, it's not quite a theme park - they are quarrying there as
has been done for a long time, although he's made it much more of a
theme park look than any previous operators ever did (who were only
interested in digging slate out, not in showing anything to passing
tourists).
--
Simon Challands
AreJay
2008-10-27 23:44:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by PeterC
Looks as if there might have been a drop of rain in the ELD.
The ponds needed a refill
PeterC
2008-10-28 11:57:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by AreJay
Post by PeterC
Looks as if there might have been a drop of rain in the ELD.
The ponds needed a refill
That's merely routine, up there.
--
Peter.
You don't understand Newton's Third Law of Motion?
It's not rocket science, you know.
Peter Clinch
2008-10-28 12:01:31 UTC
Permalink
http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/general/others/the-extreme-world-of-mountain-marathons-975372.html
is IMHO a very good piece in today's Independent about it.

It's as if someone in the mass media thought it might be good to have
someone with a Clue writing about it! Whatever next? ;-/

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net ***@dundee.ac.uk http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/
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